The Evolution of the "Tanky Dps"

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BogaBoga

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Tl;Dr At the bottom.

(Ill try to be as unbiased as possible in this post and note that most of these situations are being viewed in a team fight situation)


(Also note that this thread is subject to edits)
(Also note range was not considered)
(Also note that I am not targeting ALL carries, This is for the Majority).

-(ADC) Carry
-(CC) Crowd Control


Ill Get Straight to the point and say that Tanky dps characters and builds are really starting to affect how champions are chosen before the enemy even chooses their team composition. What I mean by this is that it seems as if picking a Tanky Dps champion is way more beneficial to your team than getting a squishy ADC. A few reasons for this are because:

1. Durability. Obviously, Tanky Dps champions are harder to take down. While they don't provide as much damage as an ADC, they are able to stay alive long enough to do exceptional amounts of damage to their enemy while still retaining a decent amount of health.
- This perk (more durability) Added with a heal can really boost the durability of the tanky dps champion without much effort/items.
- The average tanky dps champion can also grab an ignite just incase the enemy has a heal or lifesteal/spell vamp. If used smartly, this allows the tanky dps champion to retain his durability while reducing that of the already squishy ADC.

2.CC. Most Tanky dps champions in this "modern" time on LoL have different types of CC. To name a few:
-Wukong Has His ulti which knocks up his enemies.
-Renekton Has a stun
-Olaf Slow, Can be constant because of the not-so-recent buff to his Q cd timer (once he picks up his axe).
-Because of this CC, Tanky dps champions can disable and pose a bigger threat to ADC's as ADC's usually have limited to no CC.

3.Simple and straight out Damage Tanky dps champions are not known for their ability to deal damage but rather, their ability to be tanky while retaining their ability to kill. Take for example a Garen. Most of us have faced a Garen that built pure AD and slight amounts of just pure health (giant belts). Now the thing about this tanky dps is that he will be exceptionally tanky while still being able to dish out stunning amounts of damage (for a tanky dps).


Because of these three factors, an average tanky dps champion is easier to take down then a pure tank but, he is also harder to take down then your average ADC while dealing exceptional amounts of damage. Once CC comes into the picture, this only amplify's the tanky dps to kill.


Counters - Many of you will claim there are many counters to these, well to name a few, lets see how these work out.

-% based damage/True damage This is most likely one of the best counters against a tanky dps champion but, it has it's flaws. Percentage based damage (for example, damage based on enemy health) allows ADC's to wreck tanky dps's IF they are given the breathing room to do so. The issue with this is that while an ADC (A 1) is busy focused on the Tanky dps, the other ADC on the enemy team (A 2) will be focusing on that previous ADC. If (A 1) focuses (A 2), then that will leave (A 1) venerable to the wrath of the tanky dps champions.

Another issue with this is that it is very hard to balance. While % based damage is very good for tanky champions, it is a bit too powerful on squishy ADC's (this includes true damage).

-CC This one is pretty straight forward. Tanky dps champions do deal nice lumps of damage but in the community, are not seen as a worthy target of CC. I do agree with this because if an opposing champion uses some CC on your tanky dps, that leaves your ADC to continue pounding the enemy. No Bueno

-Armor Pen This is another good choice and probably the best bet if you're against a tanky-dps heavy team. The only issue i can find to this is that usually armor pen is exceptionally expensive starting with Last Whisper and if the enemy tanky dps is forcing you to get this item before 20 mins, then you probably already lost because unless you are fed, you'll have some armor pen but you simply won't have the damage to outlast the tanky dps.

Scenarios
-A Malphite with Omen, FH, Thornmail, Rylais, Abyssal, and Treds is on your AD carry. Your AD carry is trying to run away but it simply can't, Your CC Isn't very good on him as the treds minimize the CC Duration. Late game (obviously with all these items) your AD carry is constantly slowed, his attack damage is slowed, and is killing him/her/it-self because of Malphites Thornmail/armor. This is a situation where a tanky dps out-shines a carry. (Please note that all carries are different and there are indeed carries that can win in this situation. I am speaking for the majority).

-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battle Pope V2 View Post
It pains me to think that a Yi will nvr do more damage than lets say riven in a team fight under appropriate circumstances. What can you do though
Riven is a tanky dps no doubt about that and Yi is the pure definition of an ADC. I do agree with Battle Pope. I feel as if late game, both champions fully fed, the Yi should come out as the victor. The Point of this thread was to address this issue. That many tanky dps champions now outclass the previous ADC's. Why should i buy Yi over Riven?

Solutions
All in all, tanky dps champions are an interesting breed. They can fill the role of both a tank and a partial carry because of their damage output and durability. As a solution, i would hypothesize that maybe nerfing Base:...

Armor/MR
or
Health
or
Damage


-... In earlier levels will allow most tanky dps champions to be either as squishy as regular ADC's and deal their exceptional damage or be as tanky as a pure tank without their regular damage output.

This will give ADC's a better chance of building items to better counter the tanky dps champions later on in the game while allowing tanky dps champions to still play their role.


tl;dr I feel as if tanky dps champions dominate most aspects of team compositions when related to ADC's. Tanky dps champions can be more durable then a pure carry but can also deal exceptional amounts of damage. Because of this, many times a tanky dps can simply outlive a carry in a team fight situation. There are counters but there are flaws.

So, What do You Think?


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BogaBoga

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Shame-less bump.


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DA WUTANG SHOGUN

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Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BogaBoga View Post
Tl;Dr At the bottom.


Tanky dps champions can be more durable then a pure carry but can also deal exceptional amounts of damage.
you dont say?


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BogaBoga

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joebillybob View Post
you dont say?
You are segregating a portion of my sentence to point out something obvious? There's more to the sentence buddy.


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Done25

Senior Member

07-12-2012

The whole point of "Tanky DPS" aka. "bruiser" or "fighter" is that they have unparalleled build flexibility.
Take Lee for example. Need CC? Buy a FM. Need someone to tank the enemy ADC? Grab Warmog + Atma. Mages giving you trouble? Get a Maw and Merc treds.


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KaiYangGoh

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Senior Member

07-12-2012

So you are saying we put 2 tanky DPS champs at bot lane?


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BogaBoga

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Done25 View Post
The whole point of "Tanky DPS" aka. "bruiser" or "fighter" is that they have unparalleled build flexibility.
Take Lee for example. Need CC? Buy a FM. Need someone to tank the enemy ADC? Grab Warmog + Atma. Mages giving you trouble? Get a Maw and Merc treds.
This is what I am trying to say. Tanky dps champions can be very durable while still being able to (not all the time) simply outlive Carries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaiYangGoh View Post
So you are saying we put 2 tanky DPS champs at bot lane?
No


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Battle Pope V2

Senior Member

07-12-2012

It pains me to think that a Yi will nvr do more damage than lets say riven in a team fight under appropriate circumstances. What can you do though


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Rebonack

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Fighters who need to be in the middle of a fight are more durable than Rangers who can stand back at a safe distance?

You don't say!


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PrincessDerpy

Senior Member

07-12-2012

And yet AD carries decide games at the high level to the point that the team that is better at zoning the enemy carry wins teamfights.


This thread, like all others before it, is much ado about nothing.