Why I'm a "Johnny", How the Meta needs to change

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Keegan320

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Senior Member

07-10-2012

Here's a thread with a few archtypes, originally related to Magic cards but transfers well to LoL, too.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2338749

Did you give it a good read? The main point is that Spikes are the type of player that will look up the BEST cards, the BEST deck (The best Runes/masteries, the best champs) and use only these. They play solely to win, and to win as many as possible.

I don't like Spikes in LoL... Or any game. The concept of using only the best decks (Or champs, in this case) makes the game so much more decided by picks than by skill, i feel. I like to play a nice, underestimated champ that nobody knows is OP yet. I'm a Johnny.

I suppose I'm a little bit of Spike too, but definitely mixed with Johnny, not a full Spike at all.. What I mean is this: I seek out the things that work, really well, when people won't think they do. I'm Johnny in that I try new things, but Spike in that I use these new things to my advantage, if i find that they work. Think Lee Sin from release through 5 months ago. I loved that era. I rocked the Lee. In Shaella's full post about Timmys, Johnnys, and Spikes, (link in the thread i linked) he talks about how Johnnys would particularly enjoy emergent gameplay- discovering and abusing aspects of the game that, while not necessarily intentional, work well. Ward jumping and ward blocking are good examples of this, and man did i love them both when i used lee. If you ask me, that's how the Meta shifts too, isn't it? new strategies arise and take over the olds. Maybe that's why League isn't evolving anymore. Almost everyone sticks to the top, what, 25-30 picks, and each in a set lane, with a set build path, using a set R/M setup. Nothing new is being given a significant shot, it seems so few are experimenting. Not to mention, when new emergent gameplay comes up, such as ward jumping, Riot discourages it instead of letting it flourish.

But Hey, that's just my opinion. Spikes, try to look past me trashing your ways and really consider what i said about the Meta shifting, isn't it sorta true?


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Keegan320

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07-10-2012

At least bump me with why i'm wrong, if you're gonna downvote :/


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LeBonkers

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07-10-2012

I do not agree with your outlook on Johnny. I can see him learning the unexpected champion or whatever....but who I really feel Johnny is, is the person who find all the little tricks and bugs of the champions and exploits them. He'll find interactions that other people failed to notice.

Johnny is more than just "I played the OP champ before you guys knew he was OP." Give him some credit please.


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ADCisMyReligion

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07-10-2012

Go play a single player game then, because it's not going to change so join it or deal with it.


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YuriKitten

Senior Member

07-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keegan320 View Post
Here's a thread with a few archtypes, originally related to Magic cards but transfers well to LoL, too.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2338749

Did you give it a good read? The main point is that Spikes are the type of player that will look up the BEST cards, the BEST deck (The best Runes/masteries, the best champs) and use only these. They play solely to win, and to win as many as possible.

I don't like Spikes in LoL... Or any game. The concept of using only the best decks (Or champs, in this case) makes the game so much more decided by picks than by skill, i feel. I like to play a nice, underestimated champ that nobody knows is OP yet. I'm a Johnny.

Think Lee Sin from release through 5 months ago. I loved that era. I rocked the Lee. And if you ask me, that's how the Meta shifts too, isn't it? new strategies arise and take over the olds. Maybe that's why League isn't evolving anymore. Almost everyone sticks to the top, what, 25-30 picks, and each in a set lane, with a set build path, using a set R/M setup. Nothing new is being given a significant shot, it seems so few are experimenting.

But Hey, that's just my opinion. Spikes, try to look past me trashing your ways and really consider what i said about the Meta shifting, isn't it sorta true?
You say spikes make ti come down to picks rather than skill, but then you go on to contradict yourself.

If everyone's picking the best champs there are, then all that's left -is- skill to determine who wins. If someone picks an [actually] underpowered champ, then they are more likely to lose, even if they have greater skill than the person they're playing against.

If someone knowingly picks a "sleeper OP" champ, as you suggest is what defines a "johnny" like yourself, they are deliberately putting the opposing champ of the enemy team at a disadvantage, thus meaning that "Johnny's" pick is more likely to win even if the enemy player has greater skill, because his champion out-performs the opposing champion, assuming equivalent skill levels among the players.

Using the standard that everyone knows how to play/play against already, as you suggest "spikes" are doing, means that the champions being played are primarily on equal footing, leaving it up to the spikes' skill and thus making the spikes the truer, less powergamer-y player type, unlike the "johnny"s who put all their deliberations into determining who is sleeper OP and playing them so that they're cool ones who "discovered" X OP champion.


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Dr Saint PHD Esq

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07-10-2012

Johny is the guy who figured out that Shaco's clone doubled sunfire cape. Johny is the guy who stacked Tiamats on twitch and follow the enemy team around until they grouped up right for the penta (Which, btw, is one of the few "Combos" I can think of in LoL).

Honestly, I think there is a lot less area than there should be for Johny in LoL. As a Johny-Spike, I would really like to see more of this. Right now I get my jollys by playing high skillcap champs that encourage tricks (like shaco) and playing odd builds/odd lanes (Like Lulu top or double mid or Ap Shaco). I would love to see more item build paths, more interesting intereactions, and most of all more options for the meta (having more or less set lane comp is REALLY BORING, one of the reasons I try to break it).


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Raemnant

Senior Member

07-10-2012

I think im more of a spike. I find myself in the mindset of "X champion isnt good because theyre not tournament viable and dont compare to Y champs" Even though every champion is good and viable in the right hands and team comps(with obvious exception)

However, I enjoy even losing games, so im more about quality of the games and having fun than winning. If were getting stomped HARD and theres no possible way to win, im going to have fun instead. Buy a bunch of wards and walk into their team spamming them around, run around their jungle and have them try and catch me, ninja into their base and die to their nexus obelisk, attempt to solo baron and die, typing "Baron too stronk" in all chat. Fun stuff.

But id rather win. And i will try very hard to win every game


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Doc Chan

Junior Member

07-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xetios View Post
Go play a single player game then, because it's not going to change so join it or deal with it.
Aren't you just the useful poster?

I was interested to see an analogy to phrases from my favorite game and it made me wonder. What is a Timmy? Master Yi players?


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zzbzq

Senior Member

07-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keegan320 View Post
Here's a thread with a few archtypes, originally related to Magic cards but transfers well to LoL, too.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2338749

Did you give it a good read? The main point is that Spikes are the type of player that will look up the BEST cards, the BEST deck (The best Runes/masteries, the best champs) and use only these. They play solely to win, and to win as many as possible.

I don't like Spikes in LoL... Or any game. The concept of using only the best decks (Or champs, in this case) makes the game so much more decided by picks than by skill, i feel. I like to play a nice, underestimated champ that nobody knows is OP yet. I'm a Johnny.

Think Lee Sin from release through 5 months ago. I loved that era. I rocked the Lee. And if you ask me, that's how the Meta shifts too, isn't it? new strategies arise and take over the olds. Maybe that's why League isn't evolving anymore. Almost everyone sticks to the top, what, 25-30 picks, and each in a set lane, with a set build path, using a set R/M setup. Nothing new is being given a significant shot, it seems so few are experimenting.

But Hey, that's just my opinion. Spikes, try to look past me trashing your ways and really consider what i said about the Meta shifting, isn't it sorta true?
Lee Sin is four parts Timmy, two parts Spike, and one part Johnny.

Everybody plays Lee Sin and nobody is impressed anymore by players who roll their face across the keyboard to jumpkick all over the map without regard for danger.

Also people experiment like crazy, dunno what matchmaking rift you're in. In like 65% of my games somebody does something unexpected. The fact that it's usually awful on paper and somehow even worse in practice doesn't change the fact that they tried it. And that's ranked. In normals it's just trollfest--my last normal game I carried as Amumu solo mid. And nobody even said anything about it.


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2pudge1cup

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Senior Member

07-10-2012

unexpected still is 1 top, 1 mid, 2 bot, 1 jungle.

it's just boring map design.

Look, I love playing league. It's a very very fun game. But I can't watch pro league for the life of me. You turn on a pro dota game, and it's literally night and day. There's so many different strategies available to the point where I've seen lane situations where they literally just don't put a hero in a lane and give free farm because it ups pressure elsewhere.

I'm not saying I want league to be dota from a hero perspective but there needs to be way more options for team comps and just overall play. I see absolutely no reason why double jungle shouldn't be a reasonable strategy in league or duo mid push comp.

But the more I look at both games side by side the more it feels like dota2 is the game that's established and league is the one in beta.