How often does Jungling work for your team?

I have never lost a match with a Jungler on my team, ever! 7 8.24%
It works fairly well, I mean we lose a few matches, but we do better than a 2 1 2 lineup.. 69 81.18%
Very rarely have I ever seen a Jungler do anything useful but feed the other team. 6 7.06%
OMFG I HATE when we have a jungler, we lose almost every time because of them. 3 3.53%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

Jungling instead of 2 1 2

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CuteCake

Member

07-07-2012

your poll options go from 'does well' -> 'completely feeds'
the first and last options are utterly ridiculous in every sense.
learn how to make a poll, also no one is going to read your epic long post especially after determining that you're clearly unintelligent from your poll options.

have a nice day.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

07-07-2012

In my limited experience it tends to go like this...

If my team has a jungler and the enemy does not, we almost always lose.

If both teams have a jungler, the game is most often determined by whatever team has the better jungler. That team can get some early kills and destroy the moral of the other team, make them stop working as a team, etc. These are the 20min surrender matches.

If neither team has a jungler, the match is almost definitely going to be a good, fun match. There may be some cases where there's just a tough combo in one lane and that lane dominates one way or another but honestly, this can happen in 1 1 2 with jungler too, so...yea. It just seems that in 2 1 2, a simple mistake isn't as detrimental.

In the case where the enemy has a jungler and my team does not, we almost always win.



I don't particularly mind when people call jungle in the lobby and want to run around in the jungle. That really doesn't bother me. What bothers me is when we're set up for 1 1 2 J, the enemy is set up for 2 1 2, and the enemy is sticking to 2 1 2. In this instance, the jungler basically always says "I'M NOT A LANER I'M A JUNGLER!!!!1!!" stays in the jungle the whole match, and we proceed to get roflstomped into a 20min surrender because top lane is trying to do 2v1 and the jungler, rather than helping out top lane, is instead jumping into mid and bot lanes for ganks because he wants kills.

Junglers generally don't seem to care about much beyond their own personal KD ratio, and there's not much to accomplish for your KDR by going up to a 2v1 lane and turning it into a 2v2 lane.

I understand the purpose of the jungler, and perhaps in ranked play with organized teams, sure, go for it. But in normal matches, you might have a melee solo top against a couple ranged characters. What's this do? It completely shuts down that lane for farm from your team. The point of the jungler is to spread the farm out, and that's fine. But if being in the jungle means that the top lane player not only can't last hit for gold, but he also can't even get close enough for XP (if his minions ever get any kills), then you're doing far more harm than good.


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Gamerphate

Junior Member

07-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maylinchuuu View Post
Jungling is actually pretty important in my opinion.. Of course that's if the jungler is actually any good. The ganks, the control of the map, and other stuff really help out. If the ganks are good, we just throw top lane off and the rest goes on from there. I'd imagine in Ranked it'd be really important.
This is the MAIN point I am saying, most junglers are horrible at it. Especially pick up teams, if someone is offended at me saying this, that means they are one of the bad ones.


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Gamerphate

Junior Member

07-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizzlepeez View Post
U have 181 normal wins and don't play ranked. My point is u don't have much experience
Sure I don't have 1000 wins yet, and the ranked team I was in is never on when I am, but I can tell you if you do something 100 times at least, you are going to see a pattern. I see this happen ALL the time, not just OMG this one match, it is like every match we have a jungler, especially if they don't have one.


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Gamerphate

Junior Member

07-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
In my limited experience it tends to go like this...

If my team has a jungler and the enemy does not, we almost always lose.

If both teams have a jungler, the game is most often determined by whatever team has the better jungler. That team can get some early kills and destroy the moral of the other team, make them stop working as a team, etc. These are the 20min surrender matches.

If neither team has a jungler, the match is almost definitely going to be a good, fun match. There may be some cases where there's just a tough combo in one lane and that lane dominates one way or another but honestly, this can happen in 1 1 2 with jungler too, so...yea. It just seems that in 2 1 2, a simple mistake isn't as detrimental.

In the case where the enemy has a jungler and my team does not, we almost always win.



I don't particularly mind when people call jungle in the lobby and want to run around in the jungle. That really doesn't bother me. What bothers me is when we're set up for 1 1 2 J, the enemy is set up for 2 1 2, and the enemy is sticking to 2 1 2. In this instance, the jungler basically always says "I'M NOT A LANER I'M A JUNGLER!!!!1!!" stays in the jungle the whole match, and we proceed to get roflstomped into a 20min surrender because top lane is trying to do 2v1 and the jungler, rather than helping out top lane, is instead jumping into mid and bot lanes for ganks because he wants kills.

Junglers generally don't seem to care about much beyond their own personal KD ratio, and there's not much to accomplish for your KDR by going up to a 2v1 lane and turning it into a 2v2 lane.

I understand the purpose of the jungler, and perhaps in ranked play with organized teams, sure, go for it. But in normal matches, you might have a melee solo top against a couple ranged characters. What's this do? It completely shuts down that lane for farm from your team. The point of the jungler is to spread the farm out, and that's fine. But if being in the jungle means that the top lane player not only can't last hit for gold, but he also can't even get close enough for XP (if his minions ever get any kills), then you're doing far more harm than good.
This is pretty much my point. If we get a jungler and they don't we lose like you said. And then when it comes down to jungler vs jungler, my experience tells me the random pickup junglers are really really bad. I am sure if you had the same group of folks and played 50 games together, your jungler would be decent, but this is not the case with a pickup match. And you hit the nail on the head with the "OMG I AM NOT HELPING THE LANES I JUNGLE >>RAWR" and you get stomped due to lack of team work. I think it is more about attitude than actual tactics of junglers that bothers me.


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mambawarrior

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Member

07-07-2012

"Very rarely have I ever seen a Jungler do anything useful but feed the other team."

You do realize this option claims that feeding the other team is useful?


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mambawarrior

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Member

07-07-2012

1v2 top is my favorite, because they split experience and CS and you don't, so you soon gain a level and gold advantage. With this advantage, you can easily bully them and gain an even larger advantage. And that's just assuming your jungler doesn't even help once.

Of course, as i said, 1v2 top is my favorite, so i'm biased, but i'd honestly rather have Teemo stealthing and acting as a ward in the river than have another person in my lane.


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LeppyR64

Senior Member

07-07-2012

Usually if you're going to have a jungler, the person playing top needs to be able to 2v1. If they're not, you shouldn't have a jungler. If some jackass instalocks a jungler, someone needs to pick a good top.

If I'm picking a jungler, I always make sure that someone is playing a good solo top.

Also, as a 1v2 top, you're not going to see the jungler unless you manage to push someone out of lane. Top needs to sustain and stay in lane. That is all. It's more beneficial for the jungler to gank other lanes and create mismatches.


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Ømicron

Senior Member

07-07-2012

2 top only do better than 1 top if the 1 person sucks at cs'ing. If they have no jungler, your mid can just take your blue buffs all day, easy win. Your top or bot carry can get your red buffs (depending on if you're purple or blue) for an easier time. The 1 person top may have a harder time, but your mid and bot lane will do so much better. Don't need to spend money on wards = more gold to beat your lane in addition to the buffs you can pick up.

Of course, this all hinges on your top person not completely sucking and feeding, and your jungler being over level 20. Since I hit level 30, I don't think I have ever seen a jungler that doesn't know what a gank is.


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thepantsparty

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Senior Member

07-07-2012

Quote:
Instead, you see 3 guys get ganked by 4 or maybe 5, while the jungler is sitting there killing the dragon. You team dies, then the jungler dies, now the other team with an ace up their sleeve are pushing down what ever turrets you have left and getting ready for a final push, or if this has already happened they take the free time to go get the baron.
If the jungler is killing the dragon, why are you engaging the other team? If you cannot see the other team, the safe course of action is to assume they are grouped. If your team isn't grouped and you have reason to suspect that the other team is, getting into a situation where you're forced to engage them is a terrible move. Either wait until you can account for some/all of them, ward so you're protected, or back off.


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