RIOT PLZ. Orianna "buff" is more of a nerf (MATH ITT)

First Riot Post
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Naitavi

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Senior Member

07-13-2012

How do you feel about the thematical aspect of Orianna?
She is the "Lady of Clockwork" after all, but with the passive stacks reduced, she feels even less clockwork-y at this stage
I just feel that 3 was a good number for her "wind up", even if the math says it has been an improvement damage wise.


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effexkiller

Senior Member

07-13-2012

^

That's all ! Buff Leblanc ! Nerf Xerath and Orianna !


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

07-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by effexkiller View Post
And he doesn't mention the move speed nerf a single time, even though that is the single worst nerf of the entire "rework"
Again, it was 6% and you can either:
* complain about all the other AP mid's skillshots that are slower because you're inconsistent if you don't
* drop it
* Complain about it anyway because you fail to see how Orianna's Q speed is fine

=/


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effexkiller

Senior Member

07-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCIX View Post
Again, it was 6% and you can either:
* complain about all the other AP mid's skillshots that are slower because you're inconsistent if you don't
* drop it
* Complain about it anyway because you fail to see how Orianna's Q speed is fine

=/

Its NOT fine ! When I lane against an Orianna now, I can dodge her Q like 80% of the time. How is that fine ?????


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

07-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by effexkiller View Post
Its NOT fine ! When I lane against an Orianna now, I can dodge her Q like 80% of the time. How is that fine ?????
Orianna's Q is faster than other AP mids skillshots. If these people are missing Orianna Q, they'd be missing others more.


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effexkiller

Senior Member

07-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCIX View Post
Orianna's Q is faster than other AP mids skillshots. If these people are missing Orianna Q, they'd be missing others more.
Wrong, because only a few Ap mids go through minions, others like Lux/Morg stop on creeps. Ori's Q goes through minions. You can't related other champs to her - if we did that all day there is no reason she would be nerfed.


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

07-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by effexkiller View Post
Wrong, because only a few Ap mids go through minions, others like Lux/Morg stop on creeps. Ori's Q goes through minions. You can't related other champs to her - if we did that all day there is no reason she would be nerfed.
...wat

If other skills don't go through creeps, you do realize that skews the comparison even more in Orianna's favor, right?

Also, Xyph did address ball speed:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
So why the Q speed?

Again, it has to do with the reduced delay on the 'W' and 'R' activations. The ball went down to 1200 from 1275 - This means that the ball needs to travel an extra 0.05 seconds to get the the target destination of 875 units.

Since the ball speed was tuned around the total time of the combo - for counterplay reasons we made the adjustment so that the opponents had the appropriate time to respond to the combo.

If you think the ball is significantly slower - the time it takes it actually less than 0.05 to get there. While I agree that this makes all the difference in the world - your follow up spells are 0.25 seconds faster so.. chain your spells.


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Loli Bacon

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Senior Member

07-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Rumble
  • Flamespitter is now more responsive especially while moving and turning

This was the June 17th or June 20th patch.

This? This was ridiculously big in terms of how much more damage Flamespitter puts out.

...Come to think of it, that's always annoyed me to. It's when you get the 'R' dead-center on them.

That's due to how big R is compared to 'W'... mmm.. Kind of a hard thing to fix without reducing the distance people move (which would overall be a net buff - but which makes the skill scary as hell.)

Yes, perfectly is probably hyperbole. My bad. :x
Why not set it up to where the opponent moves farther depending on how close they are to the center of the ultimate? For instance, it could fling from one end to the other, and just knock them straight up in the middle. A perfect inversion.


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ROOTderp

Senior Member

07-13-2012

Xypherous for president!


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Zyrixion

Junior Member

07-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
If you meet another mid with harass poke, the ideal response is going Q/W/Max E and stuffing their harass.with the shield combo and poking them with your passive.

In all cases though, simply using Q/W is good - but properly placing Q/W so that you can do a followup E and autoattack is the high end.

I've generally found Q's utility to be the strongest though in determining winning - Super portable ward. :x
While I am happy that Riot is responding to this, it still feels as though you have destroyed everything she was pre-patch. A short note, I will write here in regards to the quoted statement, as for the rest I will link you to a couple other threads which, if you have not found already, you should review.

So, if we face another mid with the distant harass poke, we max E to stuff their harass and poke them back- however, often the cost of stuffing said harass was greater than the cost of the harass itself, and as for punishing them for it, considering it is unlikely to be within her relatively short 525 AA range, your lone option here is Q, which, since you just had to pull back to yourself for E, is going to be a full-distance, now-slower shot. On top of that, even should we hit, since we aren't levelling Q the damage will be awful compared to whatever harass we stuffed (or tried to), and hitting the W to add more damage makes the trade even worse. For level 1 Q/W and E is 180 mana total, all to probably partially stuff a 50-70 mana harass that we are left out of AA range for, and have to attempt to land a full-distance ball shot after to try to harass them back (which is another 50 mana for the Q, and 70 for a level 1 W). I am trying to wrap my head around that, Xyph, and I cannot do it.

Past saying that, I would love for you to review at least the first posts of these couple threads; at least the one authored by myself seems to have noted some of the issues being faced, if in part from a non-ranked player's perspective (though I do consider myself highly skilled with her nonetheless), and the other being the post I filled in the gaps for. And as well while I understand that you happen to be the one responsible for her creation, it should be clear to you even after reading just this thread that a /lot/ of the relatively niche player community that has built up for her was extremely attached to what she was pre-patch, a very high skillcap, utility-heavy mage that, with sufficient skill, could go toe-to-toe with the biggest, baddest mid champions yet with a playstyle that felt unique, difficult, and rewarded expert timing, decision, and the ability to use her abilities outside of the box that they were perhaps originally intended to remain within.. Despite whatever dreams and designs you may have had for her, and decided that she did not fufill, we liked her for what she was, and the ability she had to allow us creativity in playstyle, and really be rewarded for it.

The threads are the two that follow:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2330697
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2342205