RIOT PLZ. Orianna "buff" is more of a nerf (MATH ITT)

First Riot Post
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effexkiller

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Despite all the attempts to de-rail the thread with Rumble and Nidalee talk, I appreciate you staying on topic Xypherous. Also, thank you for the detailed post you made discussing the changes, why they are made, and how you feel they should be used/understood.

That said, I still have a major problem with the Q speed. honestly, you could have made everything you did to her the same except take away the Speed on the ball, and most players would not have been nearly as upset. If you have played her since patch (I'm guessing you have), there is a significant decrease in the speed of the ball. I have been playing with less than 100 ping before and after the patch, and I can assure you that the GCD changes do NOT counteract the Q speed.

It is harder to land, and easier to dodge. In addition, when the ball is behind you for instance and you are running forward it takes the ball that much longer to go where it needs to be. You are looking at a difference of over 1 second when the ball goes from max range-> opposite direction max range then in pre-patch play.

Overall, I really don't think the changes are justified, and Orianna players were happy with where she was. All this patch has done was infuriate the veteran players and make her less effective in lane.

So, why did you decide to nerf Orianna in laning phase? Since, essentially, that is what the changes did.


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Dynoglory

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Senior Member

07-12-2012

bump. love ur math rcix. What's your name mean btw?


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BlackMystic

Member

07-12-2012

Xyph, the biggest problem I have with her is the ball speed. It is just too slow. I can shield, I can use dissonance, I can get people with her ult, but I can never reliably hit someone with her q. Am I not suppose to shoot if off of her directy? It seems like I have to have an AD to shield to win games with her


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KultoDeSkaro

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Let me check up on the targetting-tech that we need to make this happen. I know it's on our backlog somewhere but somewhat difficult to actually pull off.

Ideally, Nidalee/Riven players would be able to 'select' which targetting type they want (forward facing spam happiness or mouse facing fine control) - which would be amazing... assuming the tech constraint isn't ridiculous. Right now, we default to what would be the best for 'spam-happiness' but it does mean that a subset of our playerbase just can't stand that type of control and can't use it.
Welcome back Xyph! I don't want to derail this thread too much, but can you also take a look at the smartcasting on Cho'Gath's Feral Scream? Shouldn't it work like Cassiopeia's ult, where it just casts in the direction of your cursor rather than moving your champ until your cursor is inside the cone? It's really frustrating to try to land it in a pressure situation and suddenly start walking in a weird direction.


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Kiunch

Member

07-12-2012

Am I the only one that felt Ori is a lot stronger now?

I love the power increase on her W, now I don't have to get to Q's range to do damage, I can simple shield a tanky dps to do my burst damage. W ratio buff combine with your E range, you can just do damage 1100 range away safely, or run into Q range if you can find good position to spam your Q.

In lane, leaving your ball behind the minion wave, actually deny a huge portion of your opponent moving space, since the W will hurts a lot more than before (plus you can spam that OP auto attack when they got hit by slow). I win nearly all level 1-3 trade in mid lane just with my auto attack + shield, her survival is actually better since I max W>Q>E, without stun there are no way to chase her down.

She is not underpower right now, if they changed Q back into her main nuke, they might have to take away the global cd and shield range to balance her. Then she will another cass or ryze spam nuker with a shield.


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PanRouge

Senior Member

07-12-2012

@BlackMystic You can try a couple of things.
1. Keep the ball away from you and then it doesn't need to travel far to poke.
2. Try to launch the ball when your opponent will be coming in for an auto attack (i.e. coming in to kill a minion).

I find that trying to directly hit an opponent can be difficult to achieve, but that is why it's a skill shot. The shorter the distance that the ball needs to move, the easier that skill shot will be. If you are moving the ball from one side of Orianna to the other side, try casting E on yourself and then Q. E has a much faster travel time, so it won't take as long to move the ball overall. I tend to assign 'T' as a self-cast E shortcut. It makes this transition a whole lot easier and faster.


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Defendair

Junior Member

07-12-2012

Xyph, thanks for the responses, I am really happy to get the news of an anticipated q buff as I think this will make Ori much more playable. I was hoping to get your oppinion on two questions.

First, how routine is the E damage in flight? I tend to play Ori as a support, but I rarely see damage from E, instead it seems to just "appear" on the person being shielded and no damage is applied to the person that is in the line of flight.

Second is a pet peave of mine. Why does Oriana get autofocused by the turret if she uses any of her abilities, while *most* other champions are ignored when they use theirs? Can this PLEASE be made universal, one way or the other? I have lost many kills and been ganked many times because of this.

Thanks, and keep up the good work.


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DarkerNectron

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Thanks for the update about the ultimate and explanation about the passive.

The shift from primary damage source of Q to W feels a bit forced and also like Orianna will fight against her kit when trying to boost teammates. The trade-off feels a bit disproportional, and I agree that her Q could use an AP boost. I wouldn't mind seeing a 0.1ap ratio removed from W and shifted over at a 0.05 ratio onto Q.

The E leash range is good and bad. (overall good) I dislike not being able to walk away from my ally a little bit to pull the ball back, but being able to save an ally over a wall, just a bit further out, or put the ball on a malphite that ults in a chase is pretty awesome. So ups and downs, and this feels more like a QoL adjustment than a buff/nerf.

More importantly though, the ball speed change I do disagree with. Landing her combo faster isn't necessarily the 'optimal' thing to do. If you land Q --> R then you're experiencing a ~<=0.15 (.05 travel time + .1 R time) increase in total combo time, and while you might be able to W E faster, there is very little strategic value in slowing your opponents while they are stunned. So the ball speed slow down slow should be balancing her combo when she is using the Q W E part of her combo instead of the full Q R W E combo. Introducing the R makes executing the entirety of her combo less effective. She should have a little bit of the ball speed restored because her Q-->R combo which is a crucial catch mechanism for Ori effectively got delayed by ~<=0.15 seconds.

I know there's a lot of rabble-rousers on the forum (myself included) who blew up the forums in response to this latest patch. Just know that its largely because we (both supporters and dissenters of the changes) enjoy the champion you designed and are very passionate about the unique game-play Orianna brings to LoL.


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Broseiden

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Okay, well, I'm going to go eat. Thanks for the questions/feedback!
Thanks Xy, I always love hearing the design behind changes, even if I don't agree with them. It offers insight into the characters and goes a long way into shifting public perception on how a champ is played. If you guys did a sort of dev diary on all major changes to champions then I think I would die happy.


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Dance Dark

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Senior Member

07-12-2012

All hail Xypherous and his magnificent return to the forums!

Now for the topic: Xyph said that he would buff Q's AP ratio by +0.1 to make it compete with W in terms of damage, but will W gain nerfs along with that? He did say Orianna is scary right now, so maybe they'd be hesitant to add more power with buffs without nerfs.