RIOT PLZ. Orianna "buff" is more of a nerf (MATH ITT)

First Riot Post
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Wyl

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Senior Member

07-12-2012

Xypherous is still alive. <3


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SupportMyBoobs

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
I never really intended for her ultimate to be a primary damage source, so unfortunately this is unlikely - as if she lands her ultimate, she gets all her other spells perfectly.
I've made posts on this a lot and no red has ever replied, maybe you will now.

That last sentence, there's been multiple times (Probably at least once a game) where my R flings people out of range of W. Yet what you just said is she'd be able to land all her other spells perfectly. This is not true.


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

07-12-2012
18 of 22 Riot Posts

Quote:
I don't see it...
Rumble
  • Flamespitter is now more responsive especially while moving and turning

This was the June 17th or June 20th patch.

This? This was ridiculously big in terms of how much more damage Flamespitter puts out.

Quote:
That last sentence, there's been multiple times (Probably at least once a game) where my R flings people out of range of W. Yet what you just said is she'd be able to land all her other spells perfectly. This is not true.
...Come to think of it, that's always annoyed me to. It's when you get the 'R' dead-center on them.

That's due to how big R is compared to 'W'... mmm.. Kind of a hard thing to fix without reducing the distance people move (which would overall be a net buff - but which makes the skill scary as hell.)

Yes, perfectly is probably hyperbole. My bad. :x


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Xenotime Gaze

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Hey Xypherous, glad to see you responding to this thread.

Quote:
So what's the deal with the 'W' ratio?

Command: Dissonance lost a good deal of the hard decision point that it had before. Orianna is a caster with some hard choices to make: Damage or Utility. On release, the 'W' and 'Q' had equal ratios with the Q having damage fall-off.

Finding ways to amplify the 'W' ratio reinjects this hard tradeoff gameplay that Orianna needs to be able to be balanced as an AP caster as she now needs to trade damage for utility at any given point.

So what's with Q's damage?

One of the major negative fallouts of the Q mana change was that Orianna players no longer had to use or become proficient at her kit in order to be a decent Orianna player. Pretty much, her Q was her primary damage, her primary poke and functioned as everything that she needed.

For a 'combo' mage, having one skill be the only skill that mattered was pretty off overall. This cannot be the norm.

That said, we're definitely tracking the Q change. Q was the majority of your damage before - and that can't be the case with a combo caster who should ideally need to string her abilities together to get maximum damage. I believe we're giving half of the AP ratio back to Q (0.5) on next patch as many of you have pointed out that it seems too unequal between Q and W where W is now waay too much of your damage than before.
These were the only points you mentioned that I have problems with. You mentioned that combo mages need to string their abilities together to deal maximum damage. To an extent, the changes you made to Orianna's Q & W made this less so. You shifted so much of her power into her W that the only reason she needs to "combo" anything is to bring the ball into position to actually deal damage.

Also the reason Q seemed to be the primary damage ability is because every other ability provided strong utility over damage (with the exception of W which was equally useful in both damage and utility). R didnt have very strong base damage but had extremely strong utility, E is a shield which made dealing damage with it more difficult, and W was her secondary source of damage as well as a strong utility ability.

Personally, im trying to wrestle with these changes, as i feel like some of the elements i liked about Orianna have been lost in this change. Maybe its because I dont feel like im helping my teammates and dealing damage at the same time as her anymore, i dont know. But these changes personally dont sit right with me at the moment. :/


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ZapMyHeart

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCIX View Post

Sorry for the harshness, but there IS a dissenting opinion and the whiners have been crying so loud (for the most part) that it's hard to hear a more balanced opinion.
Are you not whining as well?

QQing about the QQ is still QQ.


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FunkyBunch

Senior Member

07-12-2012

I'm glad the ultimate change WAS a bug. I'm also glad her Q is getting a little buff.
This will make me want to buy her again. (Had her, but I hated the way she know played due to ball speed, Q change, and R bug so I got a refund).
I'd still like the ball speed back, but I can live with the stun coming back and 0.1AP ratio up on Q.

The ball just seems soooo slow now. Though I appreciate the snappiness of the GCD reduction.
You have my thanks for putting the stun back in. No stun on the ult just made it a worse Command Dissonance with an enormous cooldown=/


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Rumble
  • Flamespitter is now more responsive especially while moving and turning

This was the June 17th or June 20th patch.

This? This was ridiculously big in terms of how much more damage Flamespitter puts out.
Now I see it.

Was it really?


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

07-12-2012
19 of 22 Riot Posts

Quote:
These were the only points you mentioned that I have problems with. You mentioned that combo mages need to string their abilities together to deal maximum damage. To an extent, the changes you made to Orianna's Q & W made this less so. You shifted so much of her power into her W that the only reason she needs to "combo" anything is to bring the ball into position to actually deal damage.
If you meet another mid with harass poke, the ideal response is going Q/W/Max E and stuffing their harass.with the shield combo and poking them with your passive.

In all cases though, simply using Q/W is good - but properly placing Q/W so that you can do a followup E and autoattack is the high end.

I've generally found Q's utility to be the strongest though in determining winning - Super portable ward. :x

Quote:
Now I see it.

Was it really?
Yes it was. Try it sometime. You're actually able to flamespitter someone for the full damage, even in chase scenarios or yakety-sax scenarios around minions.


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Peritoneum

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
I never really intended for her ultimate to be a primary damage source, so unfortunately this is unlikely - as if she lands her ultimate, she gets all her other spells perfectly.

Although - maybe moving some AP ratio from W to R would be a good thing at the end of the day, just so 'wasting' your W on an allied speed buff isn't too bad. I'd have to sync up with Roku about it.
Thanks for the responses. Indeed Orianna is still playing strongly but I feel obliged to run Athene's on her. Not that I complain as it's a great item that has excellent synergy in her and in the AP mid role.
Regarding R, if you want her to feel and act more bursty and reliant on her entire kit then the ultimate cooldown should get lowered a little (10 to 20%) so it's on most of the time she needs to burst from the beggining. (In the late teamfights it almost always is, but not in levels 6-14ish). As it already deals measly damage it really doesn't warrant a big cooldown.


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FunkyBunch

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Except now it appears to be slow as molasses...