RIOT PLZ. Orianna "buff" is more of a nerf (MATH ITT)

First Riot Post
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Xypherous

Systems Designer

07-12-2012
16 of 22 Riot Posts

Quote:

In reference to the W ratio transfer...so you're basically saying you want players to fit into the meta of either utility mage or burst caster, but making utility mage inferior of a setup? There goes quite a handful of guides and the thought process of team-oriented champion. Glad you didn't mention the word "support" in your post at all. Was this intentional? Because that means you guys made this change to keep her as a nuker instead of letting players play her as EITHER AP mid or support.
Support Orianna should better after the changes - though I could be wrong on that portion. Basically, having a high-powered autoattack lends to being very effective at support harass, while the increased responsiveness of the 'Q/W' combo should make it easier for her to react to opponent positioning.

Quote:
Umm, Q maxing first was NOT the only way players built champions. Sure, it worked alot, but it was by no means the only thing going on. And how can you honestly say "for a combo mage having only 1 skill be the only skill that mattered" when now W is the only skill Orianna uses for damage? Really?
Well, a couple points on this:

First off, we're aware that the balance of power between Q and W means that W is dealing a little too much and Q is dealing a little too little, so we're amplifying Q's AP ratio by 0.1 to rebalance the power of the two.

Two, we loaded a lot of base damage onto her passive and adjusted AP ratios to match. Overall, the net effect is that her damage is more spread out across her combo, rather than being Q! or W!

Quote:
The passive change was a huge issue because from what I'm seeing, it's misleading players to utilize her autoattacks more than her skills, even though she's supposed to be a mage,
If you're using one of my champions, expect to be using your autoattack. I think every class should be paying attention to their autoattacks. That's just kind of my style. Your autoattack is your basic, primary weapon that you have at all times. It should get you to play a certain way and you should be devoting mind-share to it.

Yes, it's a little out of the norm - but that's all my champions. Apologies. :x

Quote:
If there's anyone having mana issues with Orianna, that's because they aren't building Athenes. Seriously, that item was MADE for her and Ori is, perhaps, the best champion in the entire league to rush it. The fact that people don't like the item much still confuses the living hell out of me.
I've actually found that I don't really need Athene's.

I've more found that early Chalice to work because early MR is actually hard to get without going Athene's.


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Jarwain

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
I have become highly suspicious of math, as of late - as my other QoL changes to various champions that haven't altered damage numbers have turned out to be.. err.. strong. (See also: Oh my god, what did I do to Rumble.)
Link please?


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Arance

Senior Member

07-12-2012

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Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Just helping out with various projects - such as being able to help on finishing stealth and a lot of little things that have been annoying for a while like fixing Event Horizon and such.
If you're going around patching annoying things, please take a look at Lulu's Ult. Its exceedingly common when using her Ult on a champion just as they're about to die, for the Ult to go on CD and take the mana but for the target to die before they actually receive the extra HP.


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Maeleene

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Oh. I fear I've been too chatty on this thread now, but I hope it's still okay to partake in this Q&A....

Xypherous, a lot of people have said this change of her kit has greatly limited build and role options for Orianna, essentially making her only powerful if played a certain way. Even in this thread, I've seen a lot of supporters of the changes say, "If she doesn't feel strong, you aren't leveling her skills right/you're buying the wrong items/ you aren't chaining your skills properly, etc."

What's your opinion on that?


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

07-12-2012
17 of 22 Riot Posts

Quote:
Link please?
It happened 2 patches ago.

Quote:
Xypherous, a lot of people have said this change of her kit has greatly limited build and role options for Orianna, essentially making her only powerful if played a certain way. Even in this thread, I've seen a lot of supporters of the changes say, "If she doesn't feel strong, you aren't leveling her skills right/you're buying the wrong items/ you aren't chaining your skills properly, etc."

What's your opinion on that?
I'm not sure if that's actually the case - but yes, I do recognize that build variance is one of the more cogent arguments.

As to my response, I think that her Q now synergizes with many more items in general more naturally due to the lower CD (Q with Rylai's for example, is very strong utility - especially with blue or a heavy mana rune page. AS/AP damage was buffed overall (or should have been) and Lichbane timing with Q timing should sync up better now - not to mention how Athene or Deathcap builds have been doing.)

I think the crux of it is managing early mana which is a difficult thing for many of our players and is something I'll continue to track as these changes mature. If managing mana is a difficult problem then you'll feel more constrained.


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Just helping out with various projects - such as being able to help on finishing stealth and a lot of little things that have been annoying for a while like fixing Event Horizon and such.
Helped with stealth?

Well, now I'm even more stoked.


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The Fizznity

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipsy View Post
The passive change was a huge issue because from what I'm seeing, it's misleading players to utilize her autoattacks more than her skills, even though she's supposed to be a mage, and tons of other builds regarding other characters that built around the passives were inferior, Orianna is no exception to that. This change seems to be a bit of a misleader and could end up discouraging new players from picking her up and even confusing them, similar way that Co-OP vs. AI recently wasn't following current meta...at all (which confused my buddy's girlfriend immensely when she was playing AP mid for the first time and went "wtf? I used to get Trundle and Taric mid. What is this Ahri?)
Misleading? She was always supposed to use autos more in-lane, people could just avoid it because the passive wasn't strong enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipsy View Post
Umm, Q maxing first was NOT the only way players built champions. Sure, it worked alot, but it was by no means the only thing going on. And how can you honestly say "for a combo mage having only 1 skill be the only skill that mattered" when now W is the only skill Orianna uses for damage? Really? That's admitting to taking her from a 2-trick-pony to a 1-trick and stating she's able to vary in playstyle even though I've seen fewer differing items and skillpaths be used than before the patch. Last I checked, less isn't more.
The thing is, you always should have been maxing Q but her kit had all the power evenly distributed which resulted in you getting away with not doing it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipsy View Post
And not my fault the same 6-8 people have more things to say other than "I are new Orianna playur, last played was Annie, I like burst, I laik noo Ori"....general consensus is either for or against the changes, you won't really find much in-between. People against the changes, for the most part, agree with my thread: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2330697
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2336743
Now stuff it.

Sorry for the harshness, but there IS a dissenting opinion and the whiners have been crying so loud (for the most part) that it's hard to hear a more balanced opinion.


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exe3

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Senior Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Ideally, Nidalee/Riven players would be able to 'select' which targetting type they want (forward facing spam happiness or mouse facing fine control) - which would be amazing... assuming the tech constraint isn't ridiculous.
Was just about to suggest that Nidalee's Pounce should operate like Riven's Broken Wings. Glad to see that you have the same thoughts.


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
It happened 2 patches ago.
I don't see it...


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The Fizznity

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokeprof View Post
If there's anyone having mana issues with Orianna, that's because they aren't building Athenes. Seriously, that item was MADE for her and Ori is, perhaps, the best champion in the entire league to rush it. The fact that people don't like the item much still confuses the living hell out of me.
People see mana regen and think it implies that they're noobs who can't manage mana or something, I dunno.