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Armor/Magic Pen. V.S. AP/AD Runes?

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xPouf

Junior Member

06-25-2012

So I play ranked and I get alot of **** for using Penetration runes, Why? should I have only AD flat runes for AD carry? and I play Zilean for a Mid and I get **** for having low AP because I use Magic Pen Runes?

Idk I thought Penetration was better, but could someone elaborate on why flat AD/AP runes are better?


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ProPlayerEd

Senior Member

06-25-2012

Flat AD/AP marks and quints help your early game while scaling or pen. go more for late game

Flat AD marks are used on AD carries to help them last hit to obviously get items for late game in which they will be most of the damage and be "carrying" the game

Flat AP goes for the extra bang for your Buck on your spells because in Mid lane, you want to beat your enemy and take that mid turret for a bit of jungle advantage and that extra AP can make it or break it.

I generally don't think any is better than the other but it's chosen for certain situations that they predict will occur in the game.

Hope this helped


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StrmCkr

Senior Member

06-25-2012

a good answer from a red post from a diffrent threat.

Quote:
ricklessabandon


?? qa analyst
4 of 4 Riot Posts 06-08-2012, 01:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Barbaros
Right now I am debating between the usage of either ArPen or AD runes for my generic AD page. I am thinking of combining the 2 but not sure of how many of each? 6 of one and 3 of the other? Or 5 of one and 4 of other?

I been currently using 9 ArPen Reds and 3 ArPen Quints.

Also am using Flat Armor Seals and MR/Level Gylphs. Might switch the Seals for Flat AD.

so first off, your seals and glyphs are a universally solid choice and are pretty standard--no need to change.

the choice between ad and a.pen can be a little bit more complicated if you really want to get into the numbers, but it's not a very difficult choice if you know what you want to get out of your rune page.

basic info:
-a.pen marks and quints are valued against each other at the rate of 2:1 (i.e., two marks are as strong as one quint).
-ad quints are more valuable than the 'standard' set by a.pen runes (more specifically, the rate is ~2.37:1).
-hypothetically, if ad runes and a.pen runes were equally effective/attractive, you should always slot ad quints and it would be irrelevant whether the marks were all ad, all a.pen, or a mixture of the two.
-ad runes are typically better damage against champions at level 1 (and more loosely speaking, 'early game'), and better damage against minions/monsters throughout the entire laning phase.
-a.pen runes are typically better damage against champions mid- and late-game.

using the above information, you end up with a few possible setups that have varying attractiveness based on which champion you're using.

25 a.pen, 0 ad
this setup is for champions that lane and want to kill champions, have no issues farming, and probably have abilities that deal physical damage (especially true for ones that scale of of something other than ad). typically paired up with 21 offense and a brutalizer--also works great with trinity force procs and/or buffs that give flat ad. nasus and friends love this setup.

15 a.pen, 6.75 ad
very similar to the above, but for champions that might need to be aggressive in lane at level 1, and/or have some abilities that scale with ad that don't deal physical damage. this is fairly common for ad carries like ashe or varus, and is often viewed as the most practical choice for laning.

10 a.pen, 9.6 ad
this is the jungler's variant of the above two setups. this is what you'd see on trundle or another ad jungler. the reason for the lower a.pen values is due to jungle creeps having less armor--you end up hurting your early jungle clear times more than it's worth for the increase in damage later in the game.

0 a.pen, 15 ad
less commonly seen, this is a page for champions who have abilities that scale with ad but don't deal physical damage, and/or intend to shred their opponent's defenses with armor reduction via abilities, black cleaver, and/or improved exhaust. corki and darius are the two that come to mind that might go this route.


i think for your situation, i'd stick with 25 a.pen if you're doing well with it. if you're letting cs slip through your fingers from time to time, give the 15 a.pen + 6.75 ad setup a spin and see if that helps you out.

i hope that information was at least somewhat helpful--gl hf!


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Freaki Style

Junior Member

06-25-2012

Or you could just keep the answer simple and just do what the pros do. Look up featured guides on SoloMid ... just about all the ad carries go full ad runes. The numbers are good to know just in case you want to change your game and make it unique. I prefer following the people the have proven their success.


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StrmCkr

Senior Member

06-26-2012

Quote:
Or you could just keep the answer simple and just do what the pros do. Look up featured guides on SoloMid ... just about all the ad carries go full ad runes. The numbers are good to know just in case you want to change your game and make it unique. I prefer following the people the have proven their success.


thats not always true

these "proven" players have also honed their skills in game and rely completly on their skill coupled with the champ they are using to maximize its efffectivness hence diffrent builds that are viable, skill orders and even purchase plans: they are designed to be maximized for the game they are in and are not simply a "standard" that can be used or followed.

most proven players have their own play style, and usually their settings and rune/masterys are desgined to fit how they play.

I suggest finding a rune/mastery setup even build orders that you are comfortable playing and play successfully.


Quote:
and I play Zilean for a Mid and I get **** for having low AP because I use Magic Pen Runes?

most champs have relitivly low magic resitance {30} and this dosent scale
a few champs have scaling magic resitance starting at {30} - {51} at level 18

since all your abilites are scaling based on AP, its most effective to use Magic Pen marks, Flat ap quins, scaling AP glyphs, and mana regen seals.

once you get sorc shoes you have more then enough magic pen to be an negate most of there restistance {which is why the additional magic pen becomes ineffective and more ap is better}


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Warrrrax

Senior Member

06-26-2012

Keep in mind that AD helps you last hit early on and deals more harassment damage early. Armor penetration starts kicking in midgame.

Since early game is so important to snowballing, AD is favored for most AD carries. Also, many bruisers have AD-scaling skills...especially the ones with bonus-AD scaling which can be pretty high. So they benefit from both last hitting buff as well as better skills.


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