A Thornmail that only works for melee attacks

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Imwetoddid

Senior Member

06-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GenesisV1 View Post
If you are a ranged carry and you're attacking a tank with 280+ armor, thornmail, and more than 3000 health by YOURSELF, even with a fully stacked bloodthirster, you are going to get hurt if you try to kill him from full to zero. In this scenario, thornmail is a great item. This is because bloodthirster heals 20% of damage you DEAL and thornmail reflects 30% of your damage BEFORE mitigations. Let's say you have 400 AD and infinity edge. You crit for 2.5 x 400, or 1000 damage exact. Thornmail would deal 300 magic damage to you each crit. Let's say after armor/armor pen, their armor reduces your damage by 50%. So you're critting 500s on them. Your bloodthirster is only going to heal you for .2 x 500, or 100 health per shot. Lifesteal is a counter to thornmail, but it does not fully nullify its effect.
You keep using that word. You might be a little lost.


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Exoskelephone

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Junior Member

06-26-2012

This aint cool idea


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Zinwrath

Senior Member

06-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catnium View Post
uhm torn mail is countered by life steal ?

i thought it was the other way around

also why you buying torn mail on tanks and bruisers ? you already got a frozen hearth that 20% attack speed reduction ( not to mention your high armor as a tank/bruiser) is ruining torn mails potential vs auto attackers such as trynd, ash, miss perfect and yi

torn mail is more for carry's because carries don't have allot of armor even with torn mail, so auto attackers will do more damage to them hence torn mail will also reflect more damage and pretty much make your enemy's life steal allot less
there is plenty of math around on the web about why frozen hearth is for bruisers and why torn mail is for carry's ,just go dig around on any of those fan site forums and such
dig around and you'll find dev quotes that thornmail figures in return damage BEFORE MITIGATION. The more damage you do to a champ does not mean how much damage you will receive, its how much damage potential you have. So no, you do not return more damage for taking more damage..thornmail is still best on champs like rammus who benefit from cheap high armor items to go with their other armor items.


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Infirc

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Senior Member

06-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helixes View Post
I don't get the point of this. it's thronmail that is 200 gold cheaper. How is this toned down.
Because it doesn't returns ranged AAs it only returns damagefrom melee autoattacks

ediit: @Fdru, You might not see them but you shouldn't assume that everyone is super mega high elo like you, i see plenty of them.


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

06-26-2012

Why would ranged champions get a special pass from thornmail. THEY are the ones that do most of the autoattacking! Your CrapMail would only be useful against the likes of Master Yi, Sion, and some glass cannon builds like Xin.


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Goronok

Senior Member

06-26-2012

I've seen ranged AD's dominate on Dominion when played well enough. Hell, they can have the turret tank for them when defending, dancing and kiting around it. They can also attack from outside turret range, potentially, while melees generally just have to stick their face in the meat grinder. That's plenty of advantage for ranged.

Thornmail is stupidly powerful, while being cheap... this is true... but it sucks to face just as much as melee as it does ranged.


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Mylon

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Senior Member

06-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
I'm not convinced that Thornmail is too strong, or that ranged AD are weak, especially after spending some time playing and watching games on EUW.

Thornmail is pretty dependent on having a decent HP pool to make use of, and unlike other defensive items, doesn't provide secondary stats or beneficial effects. Randuin's gives HP and a great active, Frozen Heart gives a buttload of CDR, etc. Second, the best viable ranged AD on the map aren't really countered by Thornmail. Vayne, Ezreal, even Kog'maw all get their damage from sources unaffected by Thornmail. There's a case for nerfing Thornmail to help viability of other ranged AD, but it's a pretty weak argument since Randuin's and Frozen Heart pose a much larger threat and aren't nearly as conditional.
Thornmail also doesn't work on AD casters like Riven, Urgot, etc. And with the large prevalence of armor pen, this item is just lacking in general. It needs a buff. Like, flat + percent return to all incoming sources of AD.


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GenesisV1

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Senior Member

06-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imwetoddid View Post
You keep using that word. You might be a little lost.
I think i am, because I don't see an issue.

edit: Oh this is off dominion sub-forum. I got here through red-tracker. My point is still the same, a 7-stack sanguine blade won't come close to outhealing the thornmail.


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Melvear

Senior Member

06-26-2012

Perhaps a toned down version that works on all physical damage (including that of abilities) would be a good solution to bruisers while giving a little bit of breathing room to carries (in the fact that it would be a "weaker" version of the current one)


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