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Hybrid Penatration item concept - Anuket's Halberd

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Irelia Bot

Member

07-31-2012

Quote:
Lewul:
Hybrids still prefer one damage type over the other. As Jax, even with pure AP, the hits from his Lich Bane deal physical, so he still ends up doing 3-4x as much physical as magical damage. With Akali, it's still mostly magical. Evelynn deals mostly physical, since even AP or Hybrid Eve rely on Lich Bane or Trinity Force for a lot of her damage. Kayle deals mostly physical, since building AP is silly as her.
Just go for whatever penetration you need as the character, really.


All a mater of how you play and build them.


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Peligrad

Senior Member

07-31-2012

One thing that would really break this item is that there are a lot of champions with skills that have AD ratios and deal magic damage. This item would double dip for those abilities.

Also, there is the Sheen/Lichebane users. The procs of both those items are physical making them double dip off this item as well.

Just something to consider.


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KyroRayne

Recruiter

07-31-2012

Actually, Only Sheen can have this work before it is build into Lichbane. LB is still bound by the fact that it deals the bonus damage as Magic damage instead of physical and Trinity does Physical instead of magic.

Not many champs would be able to use this correctly. Jax, Teemo, Ez, and Tristana come directly to mid. I don't think Akali would since only her E deals physical damage and has very low scaling. Maybe AD blitz would.


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axesandspears

Senior Member

07-31-2012

Quote:
Peligrad:
One thing that would really break this item is that there are a lot of champions with skills that have AD ratios and deal magic damage. This item would double dip for those abilities.

Also, there is the Sheen/Lichebane users. The procs of both those items are physical making them double dip off this item as well.

Just something to consider.


Usually champions with ad-ratio magic damage abilities have it on only one ability. Lee Sin is an example of this with an ad ratio on Tempest; however, the % magic penetration will not be useful enough for him to have a positive impact on his damage over last whisper or any ad-heavy item.

Katarina is another example with 2 ad-ratio abilities; however, considering that hybrid Katarina has not been a problem and ap-katarina is just so much more common, there is a very low chance that an item like this would be problematic for her unless the item's reverse scaling penetration ratio is too high and needs to be lowered in the first place.

Sheen/Lichebane also seems like a potential problem; however, it should be noted that a mage would be giving up on vital defense or otherwise cutting back on magic damage somewhat to take both Lichebane and this hybrid penetration item. Assuming said mage has also taken Void Staff, there are only two slots left for defensive and offensive needs, and a build containing those 3 items should be unsatisfactory under most circumstances. If this is not sufficient to balance out the item, some other solution must be found, which may include weakening the ratio.
Either way, in the case that Lichebane + Anuket's Halberd actually becomes a problem, it is actually more likely that the problem was just Lichebane. That 1:1 ap ratio on auto-attacks after spells is extremely strong, especially when compared to Trinity Force after about 150 ap (or Lichebane + 1 major ap item). Lichebane might only be "balanced" by the difficulty involved in optimally using it.

Quote:
Jenkin Rei:
Actually, Only Sheen can have this work before it is build into Lichbane. LB is still bound by the fact that it deals the bonus damage as Magic damage instead of physical and Trinity does Physical instead of magic.

Not many champs would be able to use this correctly. Jax, Teemo, Ez, and Tristana come directly to mid. I don't think Akali would since only her E deals physical damage and has very low scaling. Maybe AD blitz would.


On Lichebane you are completely wrong. The damage is physical damage added to the auto-attack. This made Lichebane unusually strong and arguably broken against turrets immediately following the change that allows one to add 40% of ap to an attack instead of attack damage, and since nothing has been done to change it, mages can 3-shot turrets with some builds if they abuse the Lichebane proc for every hit.

Using Anuket's Halberd to its optimal effect is meant to be tough or even impossible under most scenarios; however, Jax, Hybrid Ezreal, Hybrid Tristana, and Akali would be able to use it well enough to justify it.

Teemo probably would never be able to use this considering that he doesn't actually have the ap ratios to justify building ap, and on-hit builds do not often include attack damage. Hybrid Teemo has been a bad choice for a very long time because of how low his ap ratios actually are. Teemo is theoretically best built as a ranged ad carry when possible, but this is not "possible" in the majority of games because he has shorter range than other carries, he is harder to defend, and everyone likes to focus him. In practice these traits actually make him better built as a bruiser with rather strange builds: Wit's End, Atma's, Frozen Mallet, PD, PD, Boots is an example of one of Teemo's best builds.


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KyroRayne

Recruiter

07-31-2012

Ok, I admit you're right about lichbane. I hadn't tested it out in a while and confused myself. I should have done better research on that.

Teemo is actually better built Madreds, Wits End, FM, Mercs, BT, and Atmas in my opinion. You have life steal for sustain, considerable AD, 1.7 AS, 2600+ HP if you have the right masteries. You will be slower without the movespeed from PD, but you said bruiser Teemo.


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KesslerCOIL

Senior Member

07-31-2012

We dont need a hybrid %pen item.
While you may like the idea, NO ONE would build it.
Kayle and Kogmaw are the only champions i can ever see building this item and even then it would rarely be seen.


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KesslerCOIL

Senior Member

07-31-2012

Quote:
axesandspears:
Teemo probably would never be able to use this considering that he doesn't actually have the ap ratios to justify building ap, and on-hit builds do not often include attack damage. Hybrid Teemo has been a bad choice for a very long time because of how low his ap ratios actually are. Teemo is theoretically best built as a ranged ad carry when possible, but this is not "possible" in the majority of games because he has shorter range than other carries, he is harder to defend, and everyone likes to focus him. In practice these traits actually make him better built as a bruiser with rather strange builds: Wit's End, Atma's, Frozen Mallet, PD, PD, Boots is an example of one of Teemo's best builds.


Just no, Hybrid Teemo is far stronger than AD Carry Teemo.
By the end of your build you should have Merc Treads, Malady, Wits End, Frozen Mallet, Madreds Bloodrazor and Guardian Angel.
^^^ this makes you very tanky with 145mr/193ar and 2697hp while allowing you to shutdown carries and shred tanks with 120 magic damage on-hit +4% of their max health and 159ad.

Basically Hybrid/On-Hit Teemo can take a beating and deal Invisible damage(damage that you cant tell where its coming from) Not to mention GA helps with peoples hatred for Teemo.


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Irelia Bot

Member

07-31-2012

Again with teemo... that is what page 4 is about.


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axesandspears

Senior Member

07-31-2012

Quote:
lagNZ:
Just no, Hybrid Teemo is far stronger than AD Carry Teemo.
By the end of your build you should have Merc Treads, Malady, Wits End, Frozen Mallet, Madreds Bloodrazor and Guardian Angel.
^^^ this makes you very tanky with 145mr/193ar and 2697hp while allowing you to shutdown carries and shred tanks with 120 magic damage on-hit +4% of their max health and 159ad.

Basically Hybrid/On-Hit Teemo can take a beating and deal Invisible damage(damage that you cant tell where its coming from) Not to mention GA helps with peoples hatred for Teemo.


By "Hybrid" is was assuming that you actually built ap for ap.
On-hit Teemo can technically be considered a form of bruiser build because so many of the on-hit items are defensive, and that is how I usually choose to look at it (most of the older bruisers inflict hybridized damage anyway). Tankmo (which is the kind of build I think is best for Teemo in practical terms) just takes that further and gives up one or two on-hit effects for better defense. The critical strike and attack damage from Atma's Impaler is a natural choice considering the bonus health from Frozen Mallet and the additional damage scalar.

From a purely theoretical standpoint, Teemo was intended to be a ranged ad carry, but he is not viable as such in this meta because of the low range and other factors. Back when ad carry mid was the actual meta, Teemo was a strong carry because he counters carries.


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Tadiken

Senior Member

07-31-2012

Loving it. I will bump this every day(if i remember) till the day this page is locked or the item is released. Or i am banned. Hopefully not the last one.