Hybrid Penatration item concept - Anuket's Halberd

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Irelia Bot

Senior Member

07-05-2012

Bump because I haven't heard a single solid argument against this item.


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PedestrianA

Senior Member

07-05-2012

This item will makes MR useless late game saying when you are having a 62% Magic Penetration after the plat 29. Which means that even when you have 250 MR it will works like around 84, not even half the spell damage is blocked, and the cost is the lost of 39 AP after death cap.

Believe or not, even if this item is introduced, the one to utilize it won't be Akali or Jax, who have no problem dealing with AR/MR in late game, instead, those mage, esp. ziggs or lux who utilize range, will say thank you for this unexpected gift.


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Aeaeros

Master Recruiter

07-05-2012

Quote:
Stats are
35 AD
50 AP
Passive unique: provides 8% armor pen + 1% for every 20 AP (caps at 30%)
Passive unique: provides 8% magic pen + 1% for every 15 AD (caps at 30%)
I swear half of you guys don't have reading comprehension. Lux or Ziggs would only get 14-15% magic penetration out of this item, unless they were building AD, in which case their spells would hit like wet noodles.

Look very closely, the spell penetration is tied to AD and the magic penetration is tied to AP.

There is one thing to consider though. The effect this will have on AD Champions who are running Madred's or who do some hybrid damage but aren't normally considered hybrids (I am looking at you Varus!).


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Irelia Bot

Senior Member

07-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeaeros View Post
There is one thing to consider though. The effect this will have on AD Champions who are running Madred's or who do some hybrid damage but aren't normally considered hybrids (I am looking at you Varus!).
That is a valid point but I don't think that is is to much of an issue given that it would buff Varius magic damage a bit but wouldn't buff his magic damage that much unless actually building AP.

Madred's is also a point that has not come us but it woulld still be the same case of having the AD from everything else boost the magic damage while still not doing much for armor penetration.


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axesandspears

Senior Member

07-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaP616 View Post
That is a valid point but I don't think that is is to much of an issue given that it would buff Varius magic damage a bit but wouldn't buff his physical damage that much unless actually building AP.

Madred's is also a point that has not come us but it woulld still be the same case of having the AD from everything else boost the magic damage while still not doing much for armor penetration.
Fixed.

The way % penetration stacks, this still will not increase physical damage by enough to cause issues, and if a champion does choose to take this with Bloodrazor he/she will be sacrificing a lot of physical damage from some other source for it.

Essentially a carry who takes this item would either be giving up Last Whisper's armor penetration; the crit, attack speed, and movements speed of Phantom Dancers; Bloodthirster's high ad and lifesteal; infinity edge's crit, ad, and damage bonus; boots; Black Cleaver's armor reduction; or the defensive slot (which would be the worst thing for a carry to give up). Any one of these things that the carry would trade out for this item would be of much better benefit to the carry than this item.

tl:dr:
Any damage boost from this item combined with Bloodrazor will be negligable compared to whatever item gets the boot.


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Sir Tiddles

Senior Member

07-05-2012

To be honest, I'd rather have a slightly higher cost item (say in the neighborhood of 2800 gold) that gives a bit more AD and AP and gives flat hybrid penetration instead of mixed. When I play hybrid champs I usually go straight for the enemy carries who usually don't have that much armor/MR so flat penetration would actually provide more damage.

I would also prefer flat hybrid penetration because it would synergize with the hybrid penetration runes I bought that really feel kind of wasted at the moment. Of course, in a perfect world there would be a %-based and a flat-based hybrid penetration item.

I really miss old Kayle building all hybrid items and putting out a truckload of damage (QQ). But I doubt we will see that much damage coming from a hybrid champ again.


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Irelia Bot

Senior Member

07-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Tiddles View Post
To be honest, I'd rather have a slightly higher cost item (say in the neighborhood of 2800 gold) that gives a bit more AD and AP and gives flat hybrid penetration instead of mixed. When I play hybrid champs I usually go straight for the enemy carries who usually don't have that much armor/MR so flat penetration would actually provide more damage.

I would also prefer flat hybrid penetration because it would synergize with the hybrid penetration runes I bought that really feel kind of wasted at the moment. Of course, in a perfect world there would be a %-based and a flat-based hybrid penetration item.

I really miss old Kayle building all hybrid items and putting out a truckload of damage (QQ). But I doubt we will see that much damage coming from a hybrid champ again.
If you have several squishy champs on the other team then this item will likely not be what you are looking for this is mainly to allow hybrid champs an option to deal with a tanky team more effectively.

Also axesandspears thanks for the fix I sometimes miss things like that.


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Irelia Bot

Senior Member

07-10-2012

Bump


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Dark Suigintou

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Senior Member

07-11-2012

Nicely designed item. Designed so that pure AP/AD champs cannot abuse it, and so only hybrid would make use of it.

That's one of the most pressing concerns when designing a new item, is to see if there are other groups that will abuse the item than the intended target group.

I support this item, since hybrid champions have trouble getting % pent for both damage types, esp. with Lich Bane, since most champs that makes use of this item wouldn't build Last Whisper.

How it stacks, is similar to Akali's passive, which means the item is unique for how it works, no other item does that. Should be easy to implement, probably just copy Akali's passive mechanics and put it on this item.

The amount of AD/AP it provides may be a bit too high, since getting the double % pent is good enough value for the item, prehaps 25 AD, 40 AP? The values right now is a bit high, especially the AD very close to the AD of Last Whisper.


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Irelia Bot

Senior Member

07-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Suigintou View Post
Nicely designed item. Designed so that pure AP/AD champs cannot abuse it, and so only hybrid would make use of it.

That's one of the most pressing concerns when designing a new item, is to see if there are other groups that will abuse the item than the intended target group.

I support this item, since hybrid champions have trouble getting % pent for both damage types, esp. with Lich Bane, since most champs that makes use of this item wouldn't build Last Whisper.

How it stacks, is similar to Akali's passive, which means the item is unique for how it works, no other item does that. Should be easy to implement, probably just copy Akali's passive mechanics and put it on this item.

The amount of AD/AP it provides may be a bit too high, since getting the double % pent is good enough value for the item, prehaps 25 AD, 40 AP? The values right now is a bit high, especially the AD very close to the AD of Last Whisper.
That is something that might be good to look at. I put 35 and 50 because it is a bit of a boost for both sides which is common for item upgrades even with some kind of added stat.

This item would likely not be the final item in most builds but instead something that is bought mid - late game. IF you reduce it to much it won't be worth getting ultil you have everything else for your build and would be souly useful for the % pen instead of mainly for the % pen. The current 35 and 50 makes it an alright mid game item with nice passives that will grow stronger as the game progresses. Much like DFG grows because of more AP into one of the best items for say LB or Viegar making their combos even more deadly.