A brief history: the death of non-standard AP builds and hybrids

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Uber Bonisseur

Senior Member

06-24-2012

Corki:
He was granted an AD ratio on his ultimate to increase his AD potency. Patches later, the maximum damage on his Big one was reduced because the AD build nuke was too strong. No AP ratio compensation
Recent nerf makes him passive not proc anymore with Sheen/Lichbane !

Miss Fortune:
For those who dared building AP MF, you remember how strong she was at nuking teamfights. She was actually pretty viable, a good farmer, easy lichbane procs... Yet; bullet time cone width was reduced (AD too strong) and her damage type shifted from magic to physical. No AP ratio compensation

Shaco:
Jack in the box purely and simply gutted, lost 33% of it's duration, AP ratio and base damage nerfed.

Tryndamere:
Remake came, already been discussed

Irelia:
Equilibrium ratio went from 1.0 to 0.5 with no particular reason. R turned physical (gained a 0.1 AP ratio though...)

Urgot:
Ah, the joys of AP Urgot. Before you grab your torches and forks, let me explain. Urgot had quite a strong AP ratio on his E aswell as nice base damage on his Q. Using Rylai, you would be the ultimate slow-bot, and spellvamp provided you excellent sustain. The AP-tank build was somehow viable and hybrid aswell. Then E gained an AD ratio and lost the AP one. Farewell...

Rammus:
He gained an armor ratio on DBC and simply LOST his old AP ratio. Why can't we just keep both and make AP tank Rammus a cool guy ?

Rengar:
Nerf nerf nerf

Kassadin:
The other way around this time. He gained a stronger AP ratio on his ult, but lowered base damage thus killing his Tankadin build which consisted in hitting people to recover mana and stack riftwalks, engaging people and applying constant slows.

Ah, that's a shame. I thought this game was looking for build diversity yet every release since a year or so proves me wrong as champions are focused towards a single playstyle. AD carries are losing their AP ratios for abilities with low base damage + AD ratios. And don't get me started on AD casters.

Hybrids are a dying breed.
Someone might just say: "But we have Jax and Katarina !" and I will answer: bull****. When hybrid becomes the only build, you are not a real hybrid. You are merely forced into this category.

Are we ever going to see champions with the build depth of an Ezreal or a Tristana ? Why do non-scaling abilities still exist (Jarvan's shield, many passives) ? Or are we just going to bandaid-fix this by throwing in more AD caster gear ?

Quote:
But, AD ratios are a good thing and abilties gain power from this !
I raise you: The Varus argument

Compare MF's E and Varus E
Varus has around 85 less base damage and catches up with 141 bonus AD. Late in the game (say +200 AD) it will do 35 more damage than MF's E, which is ridiculously unnoticeable compared to his other sources of damage. Draven has 0.5 on his E aswell, with 210 base damage... The question is;
Why would you remove an AP ratio to add weak base damage and inconsistent AD ratios ?

A Varus with slightly higher base damage and a 0.7 AP ratio on his E would have been not only viable but also extremly strong and different from his AD part.


tl;dr
Think before adding AD ratios all over the place
It does not benefit build diversity




For various solution concepts, see these

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2502502 (possible alternative to AD scaling and solution to itemization)
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2481619 (reworking the mastery/summoner spell synergy)


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Plasticmanticor

Senior Member

06-24-2012

I agree with the post. Build diversity has really disappeared as every AD champion released now has AD scaling physical damage abilities. Varus came close, but not close enough.


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XtremeApocalypse

Senior Member

06-24-2012

Think hybrids were abandoned because they needed a lot of free stats to make up for the lack of a normal AP caster's burst and an AD champions DPS. (Jax has an AS, armor and MR steroid)

Though I think if they buffed ratios for kayle she could become a hybrid AAer. Buff her E's AP ratio from .2 to lets say .5.

That sounds unbalanced because of how normal AD carries reach only 300 AD and with 500 AP thats already 250 bonus magic damage ontop of her bases. Magic resist is also a lot harder to come by of. However, AP champs have a hard time getting AS and she can't really crit so it could be balanced.


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GalacticFlame

Senior Member

06-24-2012

+1, Well written post bringing to light some problems in the game's diversity. Honestly, I think the amount of fun I would have personally if there were more hybrids would increase 10 fold. I mean, next time I see that GP coming at me, I kinda want to ponder whether to get MR. (Ok, perhaps not the best champ for this case, but hopefully you get my point. :P )


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Uber Bonisseur

Senior Member

06-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalacticFlame View Post
+1, Well written post bring to light some problems in the game's diversity. Honestly, I think the amount of fun I would have personally if there were more hybrids would increase 10 fold. I mean, next time I see that GP coming at me, I kinda want to ponder whether to get MR. (Ok, perhaps not the best champ for this case, but hopefully you get my point. :P )
Someone suggested an AP ratio on his passive, this is a good example.

Else, you have Physical/Magic/True Darius if you want to be confused...


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Haelstrom

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Senior Member

06-24-2012

I recall well my AP Urgot days.

Oh, and Magewick, when they nerfed my Magewick.

And my AP Sivir.. oh. AP Sivir.


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Uber Bonisseur

Senior Member

06-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haelstrom View Post
I recall well my AP Urgot days.

Oh, and Magewick, when they nerfed my Magewick.

And my AP Sivir.. oh. AP Sivir.

Magewick buff incoming in next patch I think


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Zenkatsu

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Senior Member

06-24-2012

The answer is always Karthus.


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GarnetJewel

Senior Member

06-24-2012

im glad
community cant handle these types of decisions

ive seen too many ap ezreals in ranked games
community is too dumb to figure that ap ezreal is an inferior build that is only used for funsise


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Uber Bonisseur

Senior Member

06-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarnetJewel View Post
im glad
community cant handle these types of decisions

ive seen too many ap ezreals in ranked games
community is too dumb to figure that ap ezreal is an inferior build that is only used for funsise
AP Ez was kind of standard on release because he had this OP-as-**** heal.


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