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IMO, Gragas can fill the same role as Malphite

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alasknd

Junior Member

06-24-2012

It seems to me that they're pretty equivalent.

Passives: Malphite gets a shield equal to 10% of max health every 10 seconds of noncombat, which is superior to Gragas' extremely sr oriented 2% heal on ability use.

Attack speed slows: Malphite gets a local aoe attack speed slow that is up 4 out of every 4.2 seconds with max cdr. Gragas gets a targeted aoe attack speed slow that is up 3 out of every 4.2 seconds with max cdr. Malphite also has a 10% higher reduction (50 versus 40%).

As far as I can tell from going into a custom game, both attack speed slows work the same way, that is after buying up a bunch of attack speed items, the enemy champion after gragas Q had attack speed equal to total attack speed * 0.6 and after malphite E the enemy champion had attack speed equal to total attack speed * 0.5

So Malphite has a somewhat significant advantage here, but realistically they are both probably sufficient to do the intended job. The longer duration for malphite may be moot anyway, since many attack speed based targets (ex jax) have low cooldown dashes that force a reposition, which gragas does faster by either targeting a barrel to the new location or simply E'ing there then dropping a barrel at his feet.

Slows: Gragas has a 35% slow that lasts for 2.5 seconds every 4.2 seconds. Malphite has an up to 26% snare that lasts for 4 seconds every 4.8 seconds. Again, malphite gets an increased duration over gragas. Here though, the effect is weaker, the slow is not aoe, and malphite has to run up to his target, while gragas is there almost instantly. it's also worth noting that gragas' E is one of the most forgiving skillshots out there. You can hit targets about half a gragas outside of the indicator in all directions.

Damage reduction: Malphite gets a 40% armor boost for 6 out of every 8.4 seconds whereas gragas gets a flat 18% damage reduction with essentially 100% uptime. These are a lot harder to theorycraft but if you build both to fill the same role (extremely tanky disruptor and jax counter) then gragas probably has a slight edge since the only way an ad with a sliver of a brain would ever attack malphite is if you're off in the jungle being a jerk and forcing 1v1s with jax or very low on health and probably the last one alive, whereas gragas' defensive steroid applies to all damage.

Global taunt: Everyone playing an ad champ knows to avoid a malphite, but few people have probably even seen gragas in dominion, let alone expect him to go tank or perform malphite's role, so there might be a temporary advantage there. Gragas' appearance is also exceptionally revolting to most people, which may in extreme circumstances contribute to deteriorating opponent play due to great aesthetic duress.

Tbh, you could probably use either one to great effect if you assume gragas being built as an extremely tanky disruptor like malphite. The latter is more well known and more blatantly does the anti ad attack speed job, but I don't see any real significant disadvantage to taking gragas. Also, seeing as how malphite seems to get picked in every draft based game due to the propensity of attack speed reliant damage dealers gragas should be an equivalent or near equivalent alternative for the opposing team.


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irott

Senior Member

06-24-2012

Thanks for the insight. I can see malph as a better defender of a tower as he knocks up but gragas could be a good initiator for taking over a tower.

Seems like you could start with an ult to get the enemy off of the tower?


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This is Dawg

Member

06-24-2012

Why not both


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Kysune

Senior Member

07-10-2012

So, time to revive a dead thread. What's everyone's thoughts on Gragas after the last patch? Is he now a good pick over malphite? I'm debating between playing gragas and malphite as support if the situation calls for it. Any comments?


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FDru

Senior Member

07-10-2012

Since the patch I've been seeing a lot of Gragas in spectated games. My observation is that he is fat.


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DoomGrip

Senior Member

07-10-2012

Gragas doesn't fill th same tactical roll as say gragas...

Primary difference is that Gragas plays work as a great counter pick to typical A/D/ A/D defensive teams which just happens to be the flavor of the month for Dominion...

Where Malphite can hold and defend a 2v1 on a tower point, Gragas has issues once focused and targeted down.. While he has a couple escape mechanisms, he lacks the toolkit to defensively shutdown a play. Malphite can knockup his attackers, slow their movement and their a/d attack speed (damage) all the while dancing around tower to recharge his passive and slow chasers down (whilst gaining speed)... Plus with his W (which allows split damage and improved armor/dmg) allows him to counter a push..

You are seeing more malphite plays simply because its the perfect defensive play for dominion..

There are very few AP picks that sustain damage even with the highest of cooldown reductions....

Hence why A/D is so prevelant.... Hence why Malphite is the perfect counter..

Gragas has his roll.. I think of him as one of the best tower assaulters in the game. His ult disjoints top especially well when it comes to retaking it and he is also one of the best bottom lanes due to his escape, gank toolkit, and heal/ lane sustain.


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Kohelet

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
FDru:
Since the patch I've been seeing a lot of Gragas in spectated games. My observation is that he is fat.


+1


Even more pertinent now that there is a new awesome Glacial Maphite skin.


Edit: If they can make Augmented Singed without bandages.... why can't they make a "Healthy Gragas" that is skinny and throws Jamba Juice or something : D


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evilXkilla

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Good thread!

What I like about Gragas is that his ultimate can be used for more than just initiating since it doesn't throw him into enemies - it can, for example, save friendly champions from being chased down. it is also arguably better for defending AND attacking points in most cases (knocking one of enemy champions off of the point towards you and going all in versus initiating on enemy turret and fighting in it, especially if they have garrison and CC). Add the fact that his ulti becomes 35 seconds or something stupid like that with 40% CDR which means he has his R 2x more often than Malphite.

I do agree his W channel time sucks though like MMKH mentioned earlier. but it'd be too strong if if was instant unless they removed the defensive stats and made it offensive only.

Gragas would also not be so weak against AP damage since % damage reduction REALLY screws over most APs while Malphite has no real protection outside of his small shield and items. This is actually a big bonus ...

Quote:
Where Malphite can hold and defend a 2v1 on a tower point, Gragas has issues once focused and targeted down..


Gragas is actually better at defending points. His ulti is a lot safer and body slam can slow both enemies while Malphite has to defend on the turret and can only slow/kite one person.


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MMKH

Senior Member

07-13-2012

I find Gragas can keep captors off from the Windmill simply by juking them by slamming through the fence north of the Windmill, while laying down barrels where the minion waves are pushing. It's all about positioning yourself to take less concentrated fire so that you live longer especially with W.


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kavinh the third

Senior Member

07-14-2012

gragas has less reliable damage and even though he's as tanky as malphite his only hard cc is sometimes a bit bad for ur team