How can we improve Dominion's point system?

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Gnome Reaper

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Member

06-18-2012

Remove points for getting the storm shield and health relics. I don't see the reason they are worth points and you will sometimes see full health players grab a health relic over someone heading to it on their own team that actually needs it.

Also, if you don't want people to focus on the score individually, you could only show the combined score for the team during the match or only show the score and placings at the end of the match instead of during the game.

Increasing score for interrupting a capture, capturing, and neutralizing are ones that have been mentioned a lot and I agree.


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The Fizznity

Senior Member

06-18-2012

Health relics? Yes. Storm shield? Heck no. People barely get it as-is, more incentive needs to be given to collect it.


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Arixa

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Senior Member

06-18-2012

The biggest problem with the stat is it rewards actions even when they shouldn't be rewarded. For instance, you shouldn't get points for having 3 people recap mid after the entire enemy team backed. It's a waste of team time and resources. You shouldn't get points for running around backdooring to decap points but never actually fighting.

That leads to the crux of the problem, you can't award points without a context for whether it was strategically sound and so a system for it is unlikely to be good as strategy on the map changes.

In my opinion remove the score stat and just show other "relevant" stats like point captures, point defenses, kills, assists, ect. I think score will always be an excuse for people playing poorly to not learn that they were wrong, the score that matters is which team was zero at the end of the round.


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Nome or Die

Game Designer

06-18-2012
2 of 6 Riot Posts

Oh wow, I go to play two Dominion games and come back to 7 pages. I won't be able to reply to every post in here, but rest assured I will read them all and take notes when necessary.

However, I do see a lot of posters who question the necessity of the point system. While I agree that the point system as-is, or under any certain design, may not be perfectly indicative of a player's contribution to his team, I am quite adamant of its usefulness, particularly to new players. Why? Because unlike on the classic maps, there is no rolling track record of your contribution to the team. The goal is different; it's capture-and-hold, and as such, the traditional metrics for success don't apply. This is a big reason why you see this massive disparity between "public" and organized Dominion play; there's no clear-cut template for success, and most players aren't willing to make the jump from selfish behavior to team-oriented, team-forward tactics.

Does this mean that every time you use Revive, you should get 50 points, and every time you use Flash, you only get 1? Maybe it does. But the general idea is that the point system should give players a point of reference and positive reinforcement for being legitimately useful.


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Hawkeye

Senior Member

06-18-2012

I would get rid of the scoring system altogether, to be honest. It doesn't convey much meaningful information in regards to how the game is played and won. Players should be looking at the map and thinking of what they can do to best help their teams' overall scores, not what they can do to maximize their individual scores.

Imagine if there was a similar scoring system for Summoner's Rift. Individuals would be awarded points for kills/assists, being near towers, attacking and destroying towers, killing creeps, taking buffs/dragon/baron, etc. Would it add any value or make it any easier to see who is contributing to the team? Not really.


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Ekis the Seraph

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Senior Member

06-18-2012

1.) instead of individually giving points to players, simply base score off the entire team (or, simply remove the idea of points altogether and simply go off of who hits 0 in the Nexus health)

Much like Arathi Basin in World of Warcraft, it's all about holding the points the longest. It doesn't matter who does what, so long as the team wins the game.

Likewise, a lot of roles are favored in terms of gaining points with the current point system (like a backdooring champ can easily double the points of the next highest person but can easily be detrimental to the team, likewise a person who plays bot but basically causes the game-winning captures/kills at bot is usually the one with the least amount of points, or in 3rd place at best). Right now with the current scoring, people like to base how well one plays on how well they're doing on the scoreboard.

2.) Award assists/kills equally.

Killing and assisting should be the same in terms of points, no matter who gets the killing blows. As well, killing them under the turret/"martyr-ing"/ should be the same as killing them off the point. Since the objective of Crystal Scar is to hold the most amount of capture points the longest, less emphasis should be taken off of killing entirely and more on capturing and holding, which leads to the next point:

3.) Give more points for defending a point.

Tying into the last point, the objective of CS is to capture and hold. Preventing captures should be worth more than anything, likewise defending a point successfully (emphasis on successfully) should net the players defending it much more than killing. Say for instance, the players, both who died and are alive, that defends top from being captured should get more points for that instead of just sitting on the point (because the +5 defense point gain is mediocre as it is and a bit unnecessary seeing as you can get more points killing minions faster.), provided the enemy team has died or ran away.

Not only should this help newcomers understand the concept of Dominion but it should remove a bit of the QQ and raging from players who simply think a high kill count is essential enough to not have to help capture.

A random suggestion: Why not remove the idea of points and replace it with that of the amount of gold gained during the entire battle? Since everybody to a certain extent gets the same amount of gold over time, why not simply show who has more gold in comparison to others and let it only be visible to the ally team until the end of the match (somewhat like in Summoner's Rift). It also allows those who excel at bot/creeper pushing to shine. Just an idea though, not really sure how it'd work. That, or simply show the time spent dead in comparison to the already number of points captured/neutralized and remove the idea of a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.


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Ryzol Ryzo Ryz R

Senior Member

06-18-2012

Maybe a hybrid scoring system that counts damage dealt to enemy, and amount of time you CCd the enemy with more points for hard cc, and for interrupting channels. CC is worth more if a teammate follows it up. If this is done you still need a scoring system that makes it clear the game is not a team death match. Maybe you only reward points for damage and cc if it defends a point, contests the Storm Shield, or results in the capture of a point.


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Karloseth

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Senior Member

06-18-2012

There is only one thing wrong with the point system IMO: Point defense.

I once played a game with a teemo who got first just because he sat on a point the whole game. It wasn't even a key point, it was rarely contested. He then called the rest of the team bad players "Because he got first and didn't work hard for it".

Not that I can think of a way to improve this, but... that was just a baaaaaaad game.


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HaIfhearted

Senior Member

06-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekis the Seraph View Post
A random suggestion: Why not remove the idea of points and replace it with that of the amount of gold gained during the entire battle?
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That, or simply show the time spent dead in comparison to the already number of points captured/neutralized and remove the idea of a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.
The problem with showing how much gold you have earned is that it encourages afk farming of waves, when what you SHOULD be doing most of the time is hanging around in the jungle looking to make something happen, and only push the wave if its starting to pile up towards your tower.

Also, showing how much time you spent dead simply encourages people to not die, which while not necessarily a bad thing, would leave the initiating tanks and bruisers with the lowest scores, and the ranged guys/supports with the highest.
Also, as has already been said it encourages people to abandon teamfights early because that would net them a better looking score.

Neither of these is an indicator of how well you did.

I'm going to agree with the people who say to just remove the scoring system all together.
If you want to teach new players what they should be doing, just make a tutorial for Dominion like the one for Summoners Rift.
That way you can go in depth in explaining the do's and don'ts.

Just like there is no personal score system for SR, I don't think there should be a personal score system for can make.


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Ha11uc1n0g3n

Member

06-18-2012

I've recently been thinking that "Point-Defense" shouldn't be the only locational bonus to the score. Maybe something like "Lane Control" and "Jungle Control" awards weighted so that bot lane receives more points for controlling their lane. Obviously someone who is dead a lot or goes back alot won't be receiving as many points and this will be reflected in their Control scores. Just a thought...