How can we improve Dominion's point system?

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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

06-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Void Wulord View Post
I dont really feel like a point system is all that important. You seem to get points for a lot of random things and well some people who are doing a lot more barely get any. In a team game having a separate score doesnt really make much sense other than causing people to talk down to others.
Nome is asking for feedback on how to make this less the case >.>


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DaRatmastah

Senior Member

06-18-2012

I feel as though there are some actions in-game that are relatively unreflected in their value for the points. The issue is that I'm not sure how they could be "measured" in their value on a case-by-case basis.

Things like:
-Delaying the enemy team from a point through jungle harassment.
-"Good" martyr-ing vs "Bad" martyring. Sometimes I stay alive long enough in a 3v1, and do enough damage before dying, that the other members of my team get there in time after I die to keep enemy from capping points. Other times I make a bad call and die for basically no reason. Both times I get the same point bonus.
-Dominating bottom lane. Even if your bottom does really, really well and has a massive outcome on the game, the score doesn't really reflect that typically. My measure for a decent bot game is ending up somewhere other than last place, and that's rare(even if I never lose our point).

I think overall smart defending/pushing in general isn't rewarded enough, and kills are rewarded a bit too much.

EDIT: PS: RiotNome, I love you for coming here and asking things like this.


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Arctanus

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Senior Member

06-18-2012

Does the points system actually do anything other thank rank players in the match?


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junseii

Senior Member

06-18-2012

I like the idea of rewarding smart defending/pushing, but implementing such a system is a little harder then it sounds. How does the system differentiate between a player actually defending, or just moving from side to side in the lane? Can the system give points for a player who is killing minions pushing to top while they wait for their team to respawn and back them up?

It's a cool concept, but it'll take a lot of work to get it right.


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

06-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaRatmastah View Post
-"Good" martyr-ing vs "Bad" martyring. Sometimes I stay alive long enough in a 3v1, and do enough damage before dying, that the other members of my team get there in time after I die to keep enemy from capping points. Other times I make a bad call and die for basically no reason. Both times I get the same point bonus.
I think this can be solved by tying martyring to assists gained while dead or a similar metric (possibly dying near a point which is subsequently capped?).


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Hékate

Senior Member

06-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscworldDeath View Post
I actually began thinking about it 4-6 hours ago, funnily enough.

I don't exactly have concrete thoughts yet, since it's something that I still want to think about, but I've got one thing, it's less concrete and more direction:

The top Elo players do not need the point system. They need to win, and they'll do what will lead them to win.
The point system should be designed to teach good practices to new players, to help complete dominion newbies learn what they should do, and when, and how. Aim the point system towards teaching how to play Dominion, and if the losing team has more points (which happened to me before), then it's alright too.
I disagree about teaching new players only, I think it should always reinforce good behavior and deduct for bad, just the triggers need to be a little smarter and there needs to be some balance.

For example, there should be times when points could be DEDUCTED if say a teammate overextends and dies horribly. If the game could know that a player is within x distance of an enemy capture point and gets murdered by 3 enemies, deduct points. Dying 3v1 on your own point vs. dying 3v1 on the enemy point are two different things. If the point rewards were smart enough to know a good kill (on your turret) vs. a bad kill (in the middle while your turret is being capped)... it still wouldn't be perfect but it would be an improvement and would hopefully discourage people who troll for kills.

As far as balance, bottom lane needs some love. I don't know if the game can know who's the current designated bottom based on location, but getting points over time for not losing bot or defending the bot turret 2v1 (i.e. not losing to a gank), that would help. The whole "bot should always have lowest score" thing kinda makes bot seem less valuable than it is in the point system.

Another balance thing is with supports. The reward for supporting is too high especially for spammy supports like Sona. I just qweqweqweqweqwe my way to first pretty much any time I play her...


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Argodis

Senior Member

06-18-2012

There isn't really much you can do other than nerf the amount of points you get from martyr, buff the amount of points you receive bot lane, and go from there.

What might be a bad strategy one game could be a good strategy the next game so it's really hard for a point system to cover all aspects of the game mode.


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

06-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arctanus View Post
Does the points system actually do anything other thank rank players in the match?
It was supposed to provide a means to track player valuability, but it kinda flopped. The best hope for it at this point is to act as a rough guide for new players as to what they're supposed to do.


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IS1a9a61ba640562b3338f9

Senior Member

06-18-2012

Yes, remove it.


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Aparkhurst

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Senior Member

06-18-2012

This is not a full analysis, but just a few things off the top of my head.

1. Remove the martyr bonus.

2. Make assists as valuable as kills.

5. Add incentive for attempted caps (every click on a point should be worth something).

4. Add incentive for every cap interrupt (including the use of garrison to interrupt a cap).

5. Limit the points from killing minions to a short time-frame as to discourage "afk farming" and encourage timely wave clear.

I'll check back on this thread to discuss further, or you can add me in game to chat