Worst champion in LOL

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FraggingBard

Senior Member

06-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etherimp View Post
Sejuani is another one who needs something more to make her "Good".. Her CC is incredible but her damage is absolutely ****.
Isn't that the point though? She seems to be a CC tank who can lock an entire team down better than anyone else. She's definitely not a damage dealer, but on a team with a burst caster (Ez, most AP's) or DPS (Vayne, Cait, pretty much any AD) then you rack up assists like they're suicidal creeps.

Whole team stun with a good R, E will almost stop any champion who is affected by it. She's just a great CC machine and on teams set up for that she's fantastic. Incidentally, while Karma is also great, she'll fit into a lot less teams with the current meta than Sej will.

Just give it a few months and it'll be the opposite. -.-


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FraggingBard

Senior Member

06-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by X4N4T05 View Post
Graves might be nearing in on that with all the nerfings... maybe the weakest 6300. Can't seem to find a good Graves anymore.
His Q has been weakened at range, but close up it still doesn't do much damage so overall that's been nerfed. Other than that he's your normal ranged AD without the true damage from Vaynes E or the slow from Ashes Q. So yea, not really worth the 6300. They need to max out his up close damage from Q and reduce the damage at range a little bit. As it is he can't even kill a mid Sona


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Phosphor Bronze

Member

06-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FraggingBard View Post
Isn't that the point though? She seems to be a CC tank who can lock an entire team down better than anyone else. She's definitely not a damage dealer, but on a team with a burst caster (Ez, most AP's) or DPS (Vayne, Cait, pretty much any AD) then you rack up assists like they're suicidal creeps.

Whole team stun with a good R, E will almost stop any champion who is affected by it. She's just a great CC machine and on teams set up for that she's fantastic. Incidentally, while Karma is also great, she'll fit into a lot less teams with the current meta than Sej will.

Just give it a few months and it'll be the opposite. -.-
I want to love Sej but:
NEGATIVES
-Moderately slow clear time
-No inherent tankiness (shield, attack speed slow, etc)
-bad counterjungler
-reliant on blue buff
-cannot duel opposing jungler
-Low damage early and mid game
-sub par ganks pre 6

POSITIVES
-Great Ult
-Good damage very late game
=Good slow

If they fixed everything that's wrong with her she'd be OP, but they need to fix one or two things.


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Etherimp

Senior Member

06-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FraggingBard View Post
I can see why Ashe would be there (Sustained slow, AoE stun or global snipe as mood/game dictates, good map awareness ability), but Sivir seems too squishy to be a good lane pusher. She has no escape abilities and no CC so she suffers pretty badly when people decide to take her down.

She's a bit like Nocturne and I wouldn't classify him as a lane pusher. Trist, AD TF, or even Graves would be better suited to the job, why would Sivir win over those three?

I'm probably a bit biased since I recently had a Sivir game where I was getting tower dived in mid at level 2, which gives you a great lesson in finding out how she can escape. So far the only thing I came up with is "she can't". And that alone makes it very risky for her to over extend on a team that punishes that. They had Shaco and their solo top was Rene who decided to roam around which shut down any forward advances and fed their Fizz carry. Much pain ensued D:

Pushers don't need to be tanky or need to have sustain.. they just need escapes. As I stated in my original post on the matter... Flash or ghost + Teleport + Ulti + Spellshield = Hard to lock down Sivir.

TF with Teleport is one of the best backdoor champs in the game, so it's hard to compare Sivir to TF.. Sivir fits more into the same backdoor/pushing category as Master Yi. She can teleport to a tower, drop it quickly, and escape before anyone arrives. Or, she could simply rotate over 1 lane, drop a tower, and teleport out before getting caught. There are a lot of champions that COULD do that, but Sivir's Ulti is an excellent ASpd buff which affects all nearby champions AND minions, which means if she pushes a wave with her, that tower drops incredibly fast due to the minions assisting her. It's not so much that Sivir is the greatest escape artist, even.. It's that she can push down 2 towers and an inhibitor in literally seconds flat and even if you do catch her and kill her, the damage has already been done.

Graves doesn't really have that ability.. In fact I don't see him as having any real potential as a backdoor/pusher. At least, not any more than any other AD champ. Nocturne, same thing.. He can use his ulti to teleport to an enemy, but he doesn't have any real "escapes". His ASpd is pretty nice, though. Trist has a knockback, jump, and ASpd buff and AOE damage, so yes.. she makes a good pusher.


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

06-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panikattak View Post
Wrong on so many levels. Karma is a hybrid support/tankyburstAP. The problem is people try to fit her into the meta and it doesn't work as well, unless you duo Q with the bot.
Put her mid or solo top and watch her potential explode.
You build her as a support you are doing it wrong. Think like swain. She is a close range AP caster with AMAZING ratios on AOE spells.

build her semi tanky: ROA ryalis FH, and you can constantly get in the other teams face and harrass without worry. Or build pure AP, sit back and go the old orianna route. massive AOE dmg from ulti+W with powerful shield and healing from Q.

She works bot but you need a partner that knows how to utilize her. Any close range/gapcloser AD carry (graves vayne draven Ez corki) allows for great harrass. with sheild/heals

I still dont get it. Right now the support takes 0 or very few creep stats to max AD carry farm right? Karma REQUIRES a decent amount of farm to really do anything right?
Plus you just stated that building her as a support is doing it wrong.

So how can you say she is GOOD and can work in bottom lane then? She either gets 0 farm and sucks or steals farm from the AD carry. She either builds support Philo,HoG or she gets even less gold.
What you are saying seems to be a logical contradiction.


As far as her Mid goes, maybe shes great. I don't see her played though, and by definition at least some of her skills are support-ish. If the team expects an AP Burst Nuker, they aren't gonna get it.

So at the very best, she is still inflexible and hard to place on a team, and by your own admission doesn't fit the current meta. To me, that equals Bad.


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Alternoob

Member

06-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrrrax View Post
I still dont get it. Right now the support takes 0 or very few creep stats to max AD carry farm right? Karma REQUIRES a decent amount of farm to really do anything right?
Plus you just stated that building her as a support is doing it wrong.
You didn't see the "duo queue" part did you, where each person knows each other's play style and can build Karma with someone who can really work with her like Graves, Tristana etc.

And besides, get Philo's, Heart of Gold, Kage's and you're set for an aggressive support. Karma's amazing when taking out minion waves late game, which makes up for her lack of money early on.


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Duhizy

Senior Member

06-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FraggingBard View Post
His Q has been weakened at range, but close up it still doesn't do much damage so overall that's been nerfed. Other than that he's your normal ranged AD without the true damage from Vaynes E or the slow from Ashes Q. So yea, not really worth the 6300. They need to max out his up close damage from Q and reduce the damage at range a little bit. As it is he can't even kill a mid Sona
dear lord does anyone here play bot lane? graves is the most used current pro play tournament ad carry and a top 3 imo. When i play bot i consider a good graves my worst nightmare because it forces me to play something that denies him like cait,urgot or he can just buy a vamp scepter and all the damage i do will be pointless while he stands there and free farms, you cant trade with him period if he has a soraka/janna or heaven forbid a taric and all he has to do is farm while you try to damage him and mid game he can rape your entire team while your damage is disturbingly low compared to his. Hes one of those ads were even if your slightly worst then your enemy ad you'll still win because your graves and they cant trade with you period while you get perfect cs.


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

06-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alternoob View Post
You didn't see the "duo queue" part did you, where each person knows each other's play style and can build Karma with someone who can really work with her like Graves, Tristana etc.

And besides, get Philo's, Heart of Gold, Kage's and you're set for an aggressive support. Karma's amazing when taking out minion waves late game, which makes up for her lack of money early on.
I saw the Duo Queue part, which makes me think she is even weaker. If you have to duo queue for a particular champion to be any good, that doesn't exactly inspire confidence or convince anyone that she is good.

Furthermore, Duo Queue has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that she Needs Farm. She either steals it from the AD carry, or does without and sucks. Duo Queue doesn't magically make this go away.

Most supports get Philo, HoG, Kages already. These dont make her any stronger than any other support. In fact with 20 AP at the 3000 gold mark with no creep stats, I'd wager that her amazing AP ratios don't matter so much.

--------------
Do you guys even listen to yourselves?

"Karma's amazing!! ...if she gets farmed, and has juuust the right team comp, AND youve duo queued, and you have just the right bottom lane partner, and you don't think of her as support, but you get the 3 support GP10 items..."


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Amoc

Senior Member

06-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrrrax View Post
"Karma's amazing!! ...if she gets farmed, and has juuust the right team comp, AND youve duo queued, and you have just the right bottom lane partner, and you don't think of her as support, but you get the 3 support GP10 items..."
Hahaha nice!


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Sokolniki

Senior Member

06-19-2012

Karma's a solid champion... she just sort of spits in the face of the meta. Other supports have good base numbers on their abilities and poor AP ratios. Karma has moderate base numbers and amazing AP Ratios. Supports aren't supposed to be taking up farm, and tend to do well without farm due to base numbers and secondary effects that don't need AP to do well at all, such as Taric's stun. Try playing Karma as a support and you'll notice her shortcomings as a support when compared to other supports if you play no-CS support. When she plays mid lane AP, her damage output is limited by the unusual mechanic of her W (Where the target doesn't take damage, but enemies between you and the target does) and the dependence on her R to make her E do any damage at all.

So she isn't bad, just a little awkward to wield. Eve is one of the strongest pubstomp champs, but once you start getting up to 1500+ ELO, she falls off hard because of her lack of CC, vulnerability to CC, Oracles and well placed Pink Wards ruining her ganks, and her overall frailty making her useless at the opening of a team fight where other Assassins are resilient or mobile enough to get in, focus a carry down, and get out without dying, or at least distracting everyone else enough away from the rest of your team long enough for your team to win the team fight.

So basically, I feel that Karma is bad only in relation to the meta. Play her as AP, and she trades favorably vs most AP Mids. Play her as support, and you'll feel like you got an anchor chained to your foot. Eve... is just bad once you get up against players who don't mouth breathe.