One year later: Matchmaking suggestions V2.0 -With pictures!

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Private Riem

Senior Member

07-17-2012

I'm going to skip some parts of your post as to avoid a wall of text. My answer to your feedback is in the quote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH galo View Post
First of all: I think my first post came across as far more negative rereading it.

High ranked people seem to have a pretty good idea of the skill level at different roles of the people around their level, It's only nubs like me that actually would need this.
High ranked players only represent about 2% of the actual population. With this, we would be catering to the majority.
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More specifics on the issues I have with this system since I've been very vague to this point:

1) There's already a ready button, it's the queue button that pops up when the game is ready to start. If people will hit that and AFK what's to stop them from hitting the ready button in the lobby and afking and wandering off into the distance? Nothing.

The ready button is necessary as once all players are ready, the MM puts then in the Queue. Since there is no lobby leader, there is no one to hit the "Start game" button, as it doesn't exist either. So to start the game, there has to be a way to tell the game that all players are ready so it can go in Queue thus, the ready button.

Note about AFK Players,
-The game has to be able to kick unresponsive players in champion selection. Players that miss a ban or fail to choose a champion should be kicked from the queue. Currently, people would dodge because of an afk player and the AFK would simply end in another Champ selection, and another, and another, until people stop dodging or the guy actually leaves.


2) 3 vote kicks is just as abusable as 1 or 100 votekicks. Especially in normal draft this would be badly, badly abusable. In ranked it could work, but not for normals especially draft.

The problem is that votekicks are a necessary evil. If they WEREN'T there, there would be far more issues with the system. Like I said in a post a couple of pages back, say you have 4 cooperative players, 1 troll. 2 things can happen. If you're in normal draft, you can write the name of the players down and get them back in a lobby, or you just lost your entire team.
Say you have 4 trolls (Normal draft team) that want to annoy people. Somebody joins, he is instantly kicked. The game ask him if he wants to join another lobby, which he does. The trolls now have 2 kicks left. The only thing that would have to be checked is the ability to infinitely create lobbies to kick people. A maximum number of lobbies per hour could probably do the trick here.
Yes it COULD be abused, but its better to have a votekick and not need it (Even if its abused from time to time (To an extent because of built in limitations)) than need one and not have access to one.


3) People leaving the lobby with no penalty means that you have to go through the whole process again, this encourages players to try to get whole teams to gang up on the player they're upset with. Once again this tendency already exists and can be seen when angry people try to get validation and support within the game against the player they're upset with. If you get the other guy to leave the lobby first, or get the team to vote them out, you win and don't have to go through the now somewhat irritatingly long process again.
I'm really not sure I understand this point. By process do you mean, joining a lobby or setting up planned and available champions? Maybe both. The fact there is no penalty for actually leaving the lobby means that if a player gets gang'd up by the rest of the players, it means he probably would not have fun playing with these players thus, giving him the ability to find different players (as obviously one could never join a lobby he left or has been kicked from) means he has a greater chance to enjoy his time playing. You wouldn't be "Winning" anything as he's probably going to have more fun than you. Yes some players genuinely suck but if we give players the ability to filter the worst of the worst, would that not be an improvement over the current system when you are PENALIZED if you refuse to play with trolls/ uncooperative or simply rude players?



4) The champion suggestion screen seems like a good idea, but honestly I'd rather see it applied to bans, and not champions that can be played. This is more to prevent trolls from behaving in the lobby and then going full troll and banning picked champs. It would be nice to have a set of icons for the various roles in the game (lane support, ad carry, jungle, ap carry, etc) this would allow you to work toward at least covering basic roles. If you can only play so few champions that there'd even be room for it to be displayed without having the screen covered by a massive mouseover overlay, you probably aren't ready for even normal drafts. Get a couple support bannings and your 2 are gone, that's a really bad position to be putting a team.

The problem with roles/position is that they are completely Meta dependent. Maybe in a year a support won't exist as we know it know, maybe junglers will have rotated as pseudo-support-ganking-roamers, we don't know. We can't assume this Meta will last forever. That was the reason I did not put roles or position in the first place.
Right now, YES it could be more useful than what I suggested however it could not work forever. Roles are too simple for the champion diversity we have in LoL. A support could go from a babysitter like soraka to the ultimate makes-you-tower-hug blitzcrank.

Lets say we have a situation where the player who would have gone support only has say, soraka and blitzcrank as his possible support. The players have the time and option to be able to set up a possible plan B in case both are banned, or maybe the support player would go another role instead, and play support only if one of those two isn't banned. Being able to know what everybody is able to do before the stress of champion selection kicks in allow player to detach from this "I'm first, cater to my decisions" mentality along with letting players make up strategies about their picks.

You could have discussion like this.( An optimal situation)
-Player A: Alright, C will go support unless X and Y are banned, in which case I'll support. Otherwise could go AP Carry.
-Player B: My best is definitely jungler but I can solo top well too.
-Player C: If my supports are banned, I'll go AD carry. Player D, can you AD carry if I don't?
-Player D: I'm really bad at AD carries, and my solo top is mediocre but I'm a really good jungler.
-Player B: Alright then, go jungle and I'll go solo top. Player E, can you AD Carry?
-Player E: I can't AD as well but my best is by far AP Mid.
-Player A: Well then I can get AD Carry and you'll get mid.

Or it could go like this:
-Player A: AP MID
-Player C: SCRUBS I BE ADC
-Player B: I can't jungle or support but I'm really good mid or Adc
-Player D: SOLO TOP
-Player E:Jungle. Player B, go support
-Player B: But I said I can't
-Player C: F*** off scrub, get kicked
-Player B has left the lobby.
-Player D: What a noob.


Its hit or miss really. But we have that in champion selection right now, which is just as bad if not worse because of the dodge penalty.

5) Rather than your method of displaying champions as above, it would be nice if you could setup a role champions overlay, and people could mouse over your icon (support for example) and you could set champions up on the summoner profile screen to be associated with it(only ones you own). This allows you to show some of the weird combos people come up with that actually work, without them needing to hardcode it every time. It would also allow more than like 16 champions, since there are 100 now, soon to be 101.

The 16 champion limit was because I was running out of space in photoshop and because thats the required number of champions to play draft. It can be 20, it can be 30, as long as it can work and the icons are big enough to be visually recognizable. Problem is that you could more easily criticize players choice for certain roles, like sending Soraka mid (example)

This way people can mouse-over your support icon and see the champions you feel are support worthy and have unlocked. You would not be able to lock free champions in for these spots as you do not have them unlocked. This is somewhat abuse-able in the light of the vote-kick as this encourages players with little imagination or super douchiness (as opposed to a healthy desire to win) to try to get anyone with weird champions in abnormal roles vote-kicked. Without the vote-kick though, I feel that that a feature like this would be actually very helpful.

edit: The reason for part 5 is that there really isn't enough to even have a basic ability to fill roles with 16. you'd have 10 champions left after banning at that point. If you're picking relatively popular champions from a variety of roles, the odds of having a considerable number (like 50% )picked or banned to the point where you can't actually even play any of them in the role you decided upon as a group is pretty high and guess what: you're the ****** wrecking the team. No one should be put in that position by the setup.

In addition, if you pick a champion that can function in multiple roles like TF or teemo it's very misleading to not be able to let your team know which of those particular ways you intend to play that champion. Showing nunu with the intent to play bottom support nunu and having everyone cool with you playing him jungle could lead to some really awkward moments in game.

Why would you not be able to tell your team? You could say, I can play Nunu as a Jungler or as a support bot, depending on the need. What is wrong with that?


Lastly:

Basic feeling about this, as this is pretty victory attempt to win / not causal and fun oriented, some of these features (particularly after the suggestions, or other fixes for the issues above) would make excellent additions to ranked. These largely kill the casual feel and intentions of normal queue. It's not that normal queue is intended for those who don't want to win, but forcing the people who don't want to or don't understand how to make up a team properly into all of this will make the between games process slow and not at all fun. It's just adding another barrier to them playing the game and just learning the basics.

These are largely the issues I had with normal draft to begin with. It's treated more seriously than ranked season 1 was at low elo, and largely makes it difficult to play to have fun. The problem is that it's the only option if you don't want every game to have shaco soraka shen darius and karthus as the opposing team. It's not that its impossible to counter that team, but sometimes you want to play other champs besides an obvious counter to one of those.

edit: and it has been specifically stated that normal draft is to play with some banning and picking structure, but normal draft is not intended as serious ranking and competitive play. If you want srs competitive play ranked is there for that. Claiming that you don't like/want/support/agree with it does not change that fact.
The cooperation I see in normal drafts is about equal to what I used to see around 1200-1450 elo. A lot of Ranked players are nowhere near as competitive as they should be to succeed in ranked. I feel this system could at least help them a bit.

Is the system perfect? Of course not. Is it better than what we have now (if we take into account the problems about the MM system I mentioned in the OP), I deeply believe so.

Also, thanks for the feedback.

****, still made a wall of text.
Sorry!


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Aardison1

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Member

07-17-2012

would love to see this


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Monsarona

Member

07-17-2012

I can see this being a great option for Draft matches through Ranked. As long as blind pick remains the same i think this would be a great idea. I mostly like the idea of being able to plan bans before hand. getting into a draft match now and having only 20 or so seconds to discuss bans between your team mates is frustrating.


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IceDraw

Senior Member

07-17-2012

bump


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Void Frog

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Senior Member

07-17-2012

Take a bump, reds need to see this.


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Private Riem

Senior Member

07-17-2012

Thanks to everybody helping me keeping this bumped.


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Exploit Vaseline

Senior Member

07-17-2012

great idea!


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AIM7Sparrow

Senior Member

07-17-2012

bump


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Gulata

Junior Member

07-17-2012

This is a really good idea. I believe it should go through.


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HarmoniusLove

Senior Member

07-18-2012

Bump