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When to engage?

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midillusion

Senior Member

06-17-2012

Quote:

also in teamfights, if something goes wrong like they take down 1 or 2 guys, or someone makes a beeline for me, i take the first ticket out and back. been yelled at for that as well. should i be changing that philosophy post haste and be more willing to take risks?


This is the problem you will face as an AD carry. When playing someone like Ashe with no escape abilities, if the enemy team focuses you and your team doesn't protect you, you will die and there's not much you can do about it. It is the support's job to protect the AD carry so they can do the damage they need to.

Right now, you are doing the right thing by staying back. However, even right at the back you can still be useful by hitting anyone who comes within your range. Yes, ideally you want to be hitting the enemy AD and AP carries, but if they are too far away, don't endanger yourself just to get to them. Instead, stay back and hit anyone you can. If that happens to be the tank then so be it.

Once the enemy team has used the majority of their long CD abilities and summoners, you as the AD carry will be doing the most damage, but you cannot do that damage if you are dead. The team who protects their AD carry better will usually win the teamfight. When you are sure that there are no more high damaging ultis to use, feel free to move in closer as it will be much safer than at the start of the fight.

Quote:
yet i've been yelled at quite a few times especially with jax this week, that i wasnt aggressive enough and thus when he jumps in, i can't really back him up and he gets killed 2 v 1 essentially. that happened with Darius week. i'm not sure if these players are bad and i should just ignore them, or there's something wrong with my playstyle.


This is mainly a problem when you have 2 champions of differing playstyles in the same lane. As Ashe, you mainly want to sit back and farm as much as possible, but Jax will mainly want to be very aggressive. This is even more so for Darius, who is very strong early game, but unless he completely destroys his lane opponents, he will fall off in the mid-late game. Always make sure you know who you are laning with before picking your champion, so that you pick a lane with a common goal, either farming to being aggressive.


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Hirumonogatari

Senior Member

06-17-2012

lol. great now i'm even more confused because i have two back to back pieces of conflicting advice about targets. one says never target tanks and supports, the other says stay back and hit anyone you can >.<

i get that ADs and APs have higher priority, but it seems open to debate about whether it should be your ONLY target.


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FaerellG

Senior Member

06-17-2012

Quote:
CSZHUNG:
lol. great now i'm even more confused because i have two back to back pieces of conflicting advice about targets. one says never target tanks and supports, the other says stay back and hit anyone you can >.<

i get that ADs and APs have higher priority, but it seems open to debate about whether it should be your ONLY target.


Hit the tank if the tank is your only safe option. If you think you can get closer and finish off someone else and not get CCed and killed before escaping, then go ahead and dive closer.

It's a matter of what you think you can get away with. Like, if you just saw that rammus powerball in and pop his taunt on someone else, then you don't need to be afraid of him for the next few seconds, so you can afford to get closer. But try to remember his cooldown, so you know when to make your escape.


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St Viers

Senior Member

06-17-2012

If you take cleanse flash, it's much easier to get the 2-3 autoattacks on a squishy, and then cleanse flash out when needed, but it takes a higher level of concentration (and is less safe for you then sitting back and hitting tanks from max range).

An ideal teamfight is:

Some sort of initiation which leads to:
Your Tanky DPS are able to take down their AP Carry before they can react.
Your AP carry nukes their AD carry while your initiation is going off
Your AD carry avoids their initiation and kills the tanks.

Of course the situation always ends up more complicated, so as the carry, you have to make the judgement call. As long as the fight didn't start by them picking you off, you can wade in and kill their squishies faster, or if you can trust your tanky dps (and can't trust your team's ability to peel and run interference) you just make sure you live, as you are the best person to come out alive and push objectives if the fight goes 4 for 4.


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bylobog44

Senior Member

06-17-2012

Respawn timers are also a consideration. Early in the game respawn timers are fairly short so an early death won't hurt your team as much. If you carry Teleport as a summoners spell, you can be back in the lane in about the same time as it takes to B and buy items.

Late game the respawn timers get lengthy. If you are killed, your team is 4v5 for considerable lengths of time.


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jhgvhgdghyt

Senior Member

06-17-2012

I'll speak based on "General" team fights.

You'll want to wait for your tank, or a player with a high amount of CC to initiate.
Positioning is the most important aspect to an AD carry, so you will want to stay around the Back~Mid of where your team is heading.
Your position will vary depending on how well your team is doing with map control.

Even if your team lands a perfect CC on all 5, if you are out of position, they will counter push and eventually get the upper hand.

Thing about league is that you can't have a permanent pre-plan throughout the whole game.
You need to just keep playing games to actually have the knowledge of the "in's" and "outs" as a ad carry.

One more thing. Coming from a support main player this really bothers me.
If you see your support in the bush and if you sense that he will make a move, ALWAYS be in a position to get in the fight, regardless of whether or not it'll happen.

Positioning is the key to a good AD carry.


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COWMANOFCOWS

Senior Member

08-13-2014

I see im late to the thread, but here's 2 cents

The following applies to the laning phase;
Judging by your experience, i would say engage all the time. whenever you think you can trade effectively. If you go all in all the time, you will learn which fights you can win.
Newer players often dont realize how much dmg minions do. if the enemy attacks you while standing near your minions, then your minions will attack them. The dmg from minions is huge at lvl one so they can be as effective as hugging tower. As the game progresses they get less impactful but can still decide who wins a trade. this should make your enemies stay on their side of the wave.
Once you know if you can trade effectively, time your trades around minion health. That means, dont force a trade right when you will miss a last hit for doing so. In turn, try to trade when it makes the enemy miss a last hit.
Learn the strength of the adcs and supports to know how aggressive u can be. if u are gunna be very aggressive then ward.

As far as team-fighting goes;
The adc doesnt need to make the call to start a 5v5 fight, they just need to be ready on the back lines. Don't try to engage unless u can hit their ad/ap carry with a frost, from safety.
As the adc, target the closest champion for sure. If this champion always seems to be their tank, build a last whisper quickly to shred them.
Its worth noting that someone on your team being the first to die doesnt always mean its time to run, if they blew a lotta ults on your tank and it died, sweet, they dont have all that burst anymore and you can probly win the fight. even if you loose the fight but the only living champ is their support, thats fine, a support wont take your towers on their own.
If the first person to die is your teams adc, GTFO! nuf said.


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