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Ziggs, A viable Bot Carry?

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Blaine Tog

Senior Member

06-15-2012

You can send AP bot, but it's generally slightly less effective than sending them mid. They end the laning phase with the same farm but fewer levels, which puts them at a slight disadvantage overall that isn't quite outweighed by the allied AD carry having slightly more levels. This isn't an insurmountable advantage by any means and it will smooth out very quickly during midgame, but it means you shouldn't send the AP carry bot without a specific reason.

Ziggs is especially bad for bot lane as an AP carry, though, and it has nothing to do with the current meta. If he's mid, he can quickly get into position to ult either bot or top, as well as any jungle quadrant. If he goes bot, he loses presence over half the jungle and top lane, which makes him much less useful overall.


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Overlord NA

Senior Member

08-11-2012

Quote:
gankas kon:
Ap carries scale off level. Ad carries off items

By sending ziggs bottom you cripple him compared to the enemy ap.

He will get less exp and less cs and won't transition into late game well.

Can and have I carried with brand going bot, yup. But if I had the choice of sending him bot or mid, mid every time.


Sorry for bringing this thread back up but you're missing the point.

You don't build Ziggs AP. You build him straight AD. He has 575 range. He has a slow. His ult does 500 base damage if it hits. You aren't comparing him to the enemy AP, you're comparing him to the enemy AD, who by the way, at level 18 with no items his base damage is higher than every "standard" AD carry in the game. Which means, with the same AD items you scale better than Garves, Corki, Vaynce, etc.

It's not a far fetched idea and it's something that's been bugging me for a long time. Why are pro players not using him, and Kennen as AD Carrys? Is it because at first glance it just seens stupid?


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Chompzone

Junior Member

08-11-2012

I'd say the reason is his abilities. Graves for example may have 3 less natural damage at level 18 and 50 less range, but two of his abilities scale on AD, and another vastly increases his attack speed.

Ziggs on the other hand, has zero AD-scaling abilities. Every one of his abilities scales with AP. Just like Ziggs, Graves has a slow, but he has a dash too. Ziggs' ultimate could be seen as better early-game, especially in teamfights. However, because of Graves' ultimate scaling with AD, later on Graves will have the superior ultimate as well.

Ziggs' passive could surely be useful as an AD carry, but it's more useful as a AP due to it's AP scaling. Thanks to Graves' passive, Graves would win every trade with Ziggs, unless Ziggs uses his passive.


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Sam Is Whoa

Senior Member

08-11-2012

Quote:
Chompzone:
I'd say the reason is his abilities. Graves for example may have 3 less natural damage at level 18 and 50 less range, but two of his abilities scale on AD, and another vastly increases his attack speed.

Ziggs on the other hand, has zero AD-scaling abilities. Every one of his abilities scales with AP. Just like Ziggs, Graves has a slow, but he has a dash too. Ziggs' ultimate could be seen as better early-game, especially in teamfights. However, because of Graves' ultimate scaling with AD, later on Graves will have the superior ultimate as well.

Ziggs' passive could surely be useful as an AD carry, but it's more useful as a AP due to it's AP scaling. Thanks to Graves' passive, Graves would win every trade with Ziggs, unless Ziggs uses his passive.


Graves was a bad example but other ad champs dont have ad scaling like tris or the old twitch and corki scaling isnt great. The real problem isnt scaling or base dmg or abilities. All ad carries have better AS lvl 18. So although they have lower ad they have better DPS because of their AS. AP champs dont have good AS making them less viable because AS items are %based and the lower your base AS the lower the % increase. So yea any champ is viable AD but not as good as actual AD champs.


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Kurokama

Junior Member

04-12-2014

Lol, I've been bot laning as ziggs since forever and have yet to see anyone else do it. He's a strong pusher in bot after quickly destroying turret 1, when the other team is worrying about the towers, you start roaming and use your ult to keep bot on their toes untill you return. You just need Mundo, Alistar, or another tanky support with you.


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Kurokama

Junior Member

04-12-2014

But seriously any other bot lane Ziggs out there throw me a few pointers.


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TheSHUTTERdown

Senior Member

04-13-2014

It was his support.

Mainly I say this

Thresh and Zyra Bottom Is a killer combo.

Their Abilities work hand in hand together.

You have to build zyra AP and Thresh Tanker with some ad

It's the bottom as a whole vs. a bottom as a whole


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dcrews

Junior Member

04-13-2014

I play ziggs bot a lot, but as a support.

He has a slow, knock up/stun and some serious poke to keep the opposing adc zoned.

He also is extremely effective late game in team fights.

Not sure why anyone would build him ad instead of just going with your standard ad.


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