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Proving Grounds feedback from an ARAM vet

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DreamsOfGrandeur

Senior Member

06-13-2012

Quote:
Grim Reaper:
Grandeur, I bet you feel like a **** now.


No, I don't, because while Brackhar said some really interesting things, he's mistaken on one count:

It still is marketing.

I'm guessing some people have different ideas of what the term "marketing" means.
They tried to make the game "more" fun, from their subjective view point, as a company.

THAT. IS. MARKETING.

Marketing can be where you dress up your product, and make it really flashy, even though it's mediocre. But, marketing can also be where you simply give your customers what you think they want, and make it as high quality as possible.

Marketing, in my opinion, is just the company's principles on how to attract customers to their product.
Some gloss, some lie, some try to do better.




Given what Brackhar said after, it's obvious Riot, or at least Brackhar does, acknowledge that their designs are never going hit the nail right on the head. (I mean, who are we kidding right? No product is perfect)

So, a project that allows custom rules to the game is a great idea for the Thunderdome.

It's uber-smart. That's Riot's marketing direction paying off, by believing in their employees to make something awesome.



However, it still stands, that they completely disregarded the fan's creation of ARAM when developing Proving Grounds.

Think about it:
Why not give a Proving Grounds perfect for SR's ARAM, then add the custom features and adjustable settings after? Because they wanted to add their own twist to things, despite there being no request of such things.

I'm not saying that's right or wrong.

I'm just being very very VERY in-your-face about it. (Sorry, couldn't come up with a better adjective) They knew exactly what we wanted Proving Grounds for - And decided they could make it "better".

And it's my opinion to say so. So, I don't feel like a ****** or whatever you typed.

Oh, and if it weren't for me, Mr.Brackhar might not have even shared that juicy piece of information.
A brutally merciless perspective has it's uses too. Haha.


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JoshysGyfte

Senior Member

06-13-2012

Quote:
DreamsOfGrandeur:
However, it still stands, that they completely disregarded the fan's creation of ARAM.



Quote:
Brackhar:
If I'm successful in doing that then you would be able to play SR without towers in side lines, and conversely play PG without the ambient gold and XP changes. I'm sorry you don't like what we made, but also keep in mind that you can still play ARAM as you've played it on SR until I get an opportunity to do that.


If you don't like the map, or the way it's played, then don't play it. Stick to custom games on SR, instead of acting ignorant and childish on the forums.

No one cares about the infamous "marketing scheme" so many people are so concerned with. We're here to enjoy a free to play game.


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DreamsOfGrandeur

Senior Member

06-13-2012

Quote:
JoshysGyfte:
If you don't like the map, or the way it's played, then don't play it. Stick to custom games on SR, instead of acting ignorant and childish on the forums.

No one cares about the infamous "marketing scheme" so many people are so concerned with. We're here to enjoy a free to play game.


^

Did not read my full post. Good boy.

Quote:
DreamsOfGrandeur:
Think about it:
Why not give a Proving Grounds perfect for SR's ARAM, then add the custom features and adjustable settings after?


They could have just as easily not given it any Ambient gold or exp in the first place.

It would have come out sooner, they would have had more time to work on the map-sandbox features he talked about, long-term everyone would have been happier because that feature sounds way cooler then Proving Grounds, and you wouldn't have ever quoted my rant because I would not have made one.



You know what? Now that I know that such a project (to make it so you can customize maps in your custom games) even existed, I find myself thinking:

I wish they skipped Proving Grounds altogether, and did that.

Being able to alter the maps before loading into game would have been bloody awesome!!

-Have everyone start with whatever gold you want
-Whatever gold/exp rate you want
-Remove towers for specific game modes
-Increase minion spawn
-Place health relics on Summoner's Rift.
-Disable any item you please
-Limitless mini-game possibilities

EVERYONE, every single person who plays LoL, would be pleased by that, and it would be pretty dam difficult to find a reason to dislike it.
Only thing that would bother me is if they didn't make something to display the changes, so people joining a custom game room knew what they were getting into.


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AndrewXA9

Member

06-13-2012

Quote:
DreamsOfGrandeur:
^

Did not read my full post. Good boy.



They could have just as easily not given it any Ambient gold or exp in the first place.

It would have come out sooner, they would have had more time to work on the "map-sandbox" features he talked about, long-term everyone would have been happier, and you wouldn't have ever quoted my rant because I would not have made one.


Game preferences aside, I think the reason people are kind of on you over this is because of how harshly you put it. A lot of what you are saying I agree with, but there's no call for saying Riot is treating us like garbage.


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JoshysGyfte

Senior Member

06-13-2012

Quote:
DreamsOfGrandeur:
^

Did not read my full post. Good boy.



They could have just as easily not given it any Ambient gold or exp in the first place.

Made it perfect for SR's ARAM, and worry about customizing in the second project.


So you enjoyed getting melee champs with no hope of doing anything unless a fight broke out? Udyr,Fiora,Hecarim,Irelia, etc. were all useless until there was an actual fight, and even then had no items or gold because if they tried to harass/farm they would get owned. That was fun for you being in that position?

Why repeat the same thing on a new map? How does that offer anything different from a game play perspective? All it would be is a clone on a different map where you can't cheat by leaving the lane. Like mentioned earlier, stick to SR ARAM if you don't like the PG version of it, and wait for them to make it customizable, if it ever even happens.


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JoshysGyfte

Senior Member

06-13-2012

Quote:
DreamsOfGrandeur:




You know what? Now that I know that such a project (to make it so you can customize maps in your custom games) even existed, I find myself thinking:

I wish they skipped Proving Grounds altogether, and did that.

Being able to alter the maps before loading into game would have been bloody awesome!!

-Have everyone start with whatever gold you want
-Whatever gold/exp rate you want
-Remove towers for specific game modes
-Increase minion spawn
-Place health relics on Summoner's Rift.
-Disable any item you please
-Limitless mini-game possibilities

EVERYONE, every single person who plays LoL, would be pleased by that, and it would be pretty dam difficult to find a reason to dislike it.
Only thing that would bother me is if they didn't make something to display the changes, so people joining a custom game room knew what they were getting into.


I'm sure that requires a lot more work and time to put something like that into the game, given there's practically an infinite number of different games that could be created.


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DreamsOfGrandeur

Senior Member

06-13-2012

Quote:
ACookieMonster:

TL;DR: If you want to play ARAM just as you play it on Summoner's rift, go play it on summoner's rift.


The demand for Proving Grounds to be made available in the first place was purely because people wanted to play ARAM without having to worry about rule-breakers and trolls.

So, your TL;DR isn't really valid.

And, I did read your full post too. I acknowledge that a lot of people enjoy ARAB. I'm speaking purely on my own opinion and on behalf of people who prefer ARAM over ARAB (like me).

If you like ARAB better, it's perfectly fine for you to disagree with me on preferences.

Quote:
JoshysGyfte:
I'm sure that requires a lot more work and time to put something like that into the game, given there's practically an infinite number of different games that could be created.


That's the beauty of my statement: I wouldn't care.

If they had skipped Proving Grounds, we wouldn't even know about Thunderdome, and they'd be happily tinkering away at it.

As the saying goes: "Ignorance is bliss."
Your ignorance, my ignorance, we'd be having nerdgasms about Pulsefire Ezreal instead and be none the wiser.




Edit:

Quote:
JoshysGyfte:
So you enjoyed getting melee champs with no hope of doing anything unless a fight broke out?


YES.

Why? Because it was different.
It created interactions you would not see in normal games, which I can't completely say the same for Proving Grounds, because early game feels just like the early fights over top in Dominion.


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JoshysGyfte

Senior Member

06-13-2012

Quote:
DreamsOfGrandeur:
The demand for Proving Grounds to be made available in the first place was purely because people wanted to play ARAM without having to worry about rule-breakers and trolls.

So, your TL;DR isn't really valid.

And, I did read your full post too. I acknowledge that a lot of people enjoy ARAB. I'm speaking purely on my own opinion and on behalf of people who prefer ARAM over ARAB.

If you like ARAB better, it's perfectly fine for you to disagree with me on preferences.



That's the beauty of my statement: I wouldn't care.

If they had skipped Proving Grounds, we wouldn't even know about Thunderdome, and they'd be happily tinkering away at it.

As the saying goes: Ignorance is bliss. Your ignorance, my ignorance, it would all have been fine.


How could you possible know the people who prefer ARAM over ARAB don't like the Proving Grounds? Out of all the comments you've been making it appears as though you're wanting changes, that you think everyone will like. Which is exactly what you're criticizing Riot for lol

And not sure if you know this or not, but a lot of people wanted Proving Grounds for a 1v1 map as well.


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George W Nome

Game Designer

06-13-2012

Quote:
DreamsOfGrandeur:
Oh, and if it weren't for me, Mr.Brackhar might not have even shared that juicy piece of information.
A brutally merciless perspective has it's uses too. Haha.

Actually, he's stated it in this forum previously. And I stated it in my first post in this very thread :P


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JoshysGyfte

Senior Member

06-13-2012

Swagger ^