HP Items

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Orphane

Senior Member

06-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by inFe eD View Post
I'd like for Frozen Heart, specifically, to be toned down. It's a purely defensive item that still increases your DPS dramatically through the 20% CDR, and the way the attack speed slow functions shuts down Ranged DPS and other autoattackers even harder than they already normally are.

Taking out Warmogs was fine since it was a little too ridiculous on Dominion, but it'd be nice to have an alternative item in lieu of that.

The other defensive items seem okay; I especially like the more offensive gameplay Veil provides over the SR equivalent.
It ain't high elo until you see at least 9/10 Frozen Hearts in a game.


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

06-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
Variety is an issue we can still solve.
I agree that items are one way to strike balance in Dominion... but the tone of this statement worries me. It sounds as if it's too late to solve any other issues.


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Cauldrath

Senior Member

06-13-2012

Shameless plug for my list of Dominion changes:

Item changes:
P. Ring: add CDR
P. Blade: Reduce AD and add some AS or crit
Entropy: Decrease the duration of the true-damage DoT so it's more useful on more characters
Odyn's Veil: reduce mana to 325
Kitae's: Decrease the AD and increase proc to 3%
Oracle's: Reduce duration and remove clearing on death

CS aura:
Increased mana regen only applies to bonus mana regen, not base, and increased (250%?)
Maximum mana reduced by a %
% Armor/MR shred/pen effects reduced by a %
Abilities that scale on % of opponent's maximum health reduced by a %
CDR added (does not count against 40% CDR cap), which is higher for ultimates
>Base< attack speed of champions increased by a flat amount
All auto-attacks gain a % of AP as magic damage
Rage generation increased by 2% for each 1% of rage missing
Reduction of HP costs for abilities
Aura includes a small amount of Tenacity (does not stack with items)
Health of shields reduced by a %
Base AD reduced by a %

As for a pure health item, I think a lot of AD carries are hit pretty hard by the fact that currently the best defensive choices are for armor. Increasing the amount of health the average champ has and decreasing the armor makes the most attractive defensive choice for AD carries, life steal, much more powerful, which will help edge those champs up to a better place. There's still the issue of Frozen Heart, which is so insanely powerful in Dominion that it would probably help to have a Dominion-specific version or just remove the Glacial Shroud line completely and put some other CDR options in. Perhaps a Kindlegem + Giant's Belt item to fill both roles?

Of all the changes I listed above, I think the most important one would be giving a % of AP to autoattacks. Right now AP is incredibly undervalued, but giving a free Rabadon's passive that is high enough to make burst casters viable will wind up making the game little more than a frag fest. Time is the most important thing in Dominion right now, and making it so that fights are shorter reduces the value of being positioned close enough that you can reach an important location before a fight ends. Adding an AP ratio to autoattacks will give some sustained dps between cooldowns and also fix the issue of autoattacks on mages feeling really unsatisfying.


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Helixes

Senior Member

06-13-2012

I would say they are healthy, but what ones you need are in short supply.


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VoidInsanity

Senior Member

06-13-2012

As I see it RiotNome, the problem is not just the defensive items but all items in general. Some items in dominion are just too powerful due to their SR nature. Trinity Force, Infinity Edge, etc. They need new "toned down" versions like Madreds Bloodrazor becoming Kitaes Bloodrazor. Casters could also do with that selfish strong spellvamp item so they actually stand a chance in fights endgame without having to be tanky dps like Kassadin and Ryze or true damage like Ahri.

The reason that people have to go tank or bust is because of the naturally tanky champions such as jax that can one shot you the second they get one of their 3.5K items. The power creep overall is too high, both defensive and offensive items need nerfed dominion versions IMO, but mainly the offensive items due to the innate scaling granted by either the champions passives (Kog Maw, Vayne, Etc) or Last Whisper/Lifesteal.

IMO no Item in dominion should cost over 3K. That way you can balance power creep by having less power to creep with. Kitaes bloodrazor was a good start, the only reason that is seldom used is because no other SR item has a nerfed dominion version. This is why the dominion only items are seldom used except for Hextech Sweeper, the SR items are too strong in comparison.


@Sauron while raising the CDR cap is nice in theory, it'll not do much since mages would have to find some way to get even higher cdr without loosing any stats they need, and the mana required to sustain it. It's just not a solution and would just proceed to make tanky casters that can abuse Tears of the Godess such as Yorrick, Urgot and Ryze even worse than they are now. The solution needs to be something that effects AP casters only and energy/rage users, otherwise we are going to see alot of ghostblade/brutilizer CDR boot AD's destroy everything. So to that end the Crystal Scar aura needs to be adjusted, say a flat AP % boost or a % of your current AP is added as flat magic pen or spellvamp. Stuff like that. It must not effect AD's or tanks at all.


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Psi21

Senior Member

06-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
So a question I'd like to ask here is whether high-end defensive items are conducive to healthy gameplay on Dominion. Variety is an issue we can still solve.
As in hp per level runes and Calalyst the Protector nah... no prob here.... love it


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TheFrenchTickler

Member

06-13-2012

I really like the idea of upgrading haunting guise. I would use it far more often and I have bigger issues against tanky derps because I can rarely afford a void staff. I'm really only building hybrid items on dominion, I can't do dmg if I'm dead.


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TheFrenchTickler

Member

06-13-2012

Also the ap on hit above would make tanky derps unstoppable IMO lol. Pictured jax whacking off to that while malphite passes the lotion.


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Lockdrum

Senior Member

06-13-2012

A replacement for Warmog's would be nice. As not having it hinders my Sturdy Wukong build. Boots>Tri-force>Warmog's>Mom>Atma's>Last Whisper. Does anyone have any sugestions for a replacement for Warmog's?


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Volandum

Senior Member

06-13-2012

You have no lifesteal or CDR, so try Zeke's, particularly if anyone on your team benefits from it.


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