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people saying elo hell dont exist...

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KingSnafu

Senior Member

06-12-2012

Quote:
KROTANK:
You missed his point about the statistical irrationality of "elo hell." To re-iterate, you assume your elo is much higher than what it is currently ranked as. Thus, on your team, you have yourself, and 4 other players of "low" elo. The opposing team is made up of 5 players of the same low elo as the 4 players on your team. Assuming you're truly skilled beyond your current elo rank, this would mean that you'd climb out of 'elo hell' quickly. However, since you're not skilled beyond your elo rank, you're not in elo hell, you just hate having a low rank.


Apparently everything ive said just soared right over your head. I never once said i was having trouble getting out of it now that im playing ranked again to the contrary actually. My point is the time in-between what you were at when you sucked however low that ended up being, and when you started doing it while knowing what you are doing is elo hell. Of course there are people meant to be at all elo levels and have never said differently.


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PiIvIpZ

Junior Member

06-13-2012

Elo hell does exist . Teams pick rolls not thinking about counter picks as 1 st pick . And it don't matter if your a 1200 player or not . Game is normally won by the amount of bad players on Ur team or who has the worst player who feeds the other team the most normally . Even a 1800+ can't do anything vs a 15-1 fed player who is normally bad but got fed by someone worse


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xCry0x

Senior Member

06-13-2012

Quote:
KingSnafu:
Apparently everything ive said just soared right over your head. I never once said i was having trouble getting out of it now that im playing ranked again to the contrary actually. My point is the time in-between what you were at when you sucked however low that ended up being, and when you started doing it while knowing what you are doing is elo hell. Of course there are people meant to be at all elo levels and have never said differently.


Okay Mr. Condescending, all you are doing is pointing out the incredibly obvious. Thank you for your insightful post, the community now understands the concept of ELO Hell thanks to your wisdom, guidance and level of intelligence that surpasses all of us.

Before this post I would have never guessed that trying to go from low elo -> respectable elo is what people called elo hell.

While we are at it, you originally stated, "Making that slow climb back up to 1200+ elo hell."

I countered that by saying making the climb itself is not elo hell, playing with the trolls and players who do not understand how bad they are is what makes it hell. If everyone that sucked knew they sucked and was trying to better themselves the experience would not be bad because a player, as you described, that went off and learned how to play after tanking their ELO, could enlighten the masses and lead their team to win after win. What makes the experience hell is that on any given team you will have 1 person who is trolling with no intention to play well and probably another 2 players who think they are good and blame everyone else for their shortcomings which in turn makes the team do even worse. When you come back to this after learning to play the experience is hell because you can identify who the bad players are but can do nothing about it aside from carry the team yourself. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave

This must have soared right over your head. The point I am making is the time it takes to go from 500-1200+ elo is a pain in the A** but the true hell, in my opinion, is playing with bad players. This is different than saying the time it takes to go from 500-1200 is elo hell.


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Real Stronk

Senior Member

06-13-2012

I am not yet playing Elo games, as I have only been playing LoL for a few week and am level 23, but I can prove to you mathematically that this concept of Elo hell is fundamentally incorrect.


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KingSnafu

Senior Member

06-13-2012

what was the point in your long winded reiteration of what i said already cryo. what you described is the majority of low elo games and yes to crawl out of it you have to do what u said, carry the teams the majority of the time, but as u get higher the trolls and people who think there great but feed consistently (who id also consider trolls) the majority of these people get weeded out around 1200 and become rare around 2000.

and by your definition every game you join is elo hell as "bad" players is all in ur opinion

and of course you can prove mathmatically elo hell doesnt exist mathmatically you elo reflects you skill level, if someone who isnt ready to play ranked consistently plays ranked there going to be have a low elo to reflect it, when they realize they should learn to play first, and then start playing ranked again there elo will eventually show that they no longer suck the middle part to that eventuality is elo hell.


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DebosBike

Senior Member

06-13-2012

People on here just rage about ELO hell because they've reached a point where teamwork starts to come into play and they don't have any. They're the same people that say ELO should be calculated based on individual performance.


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Dennis912

Junior Member

06-13-2012

Its not a matter of elo hell its the fact that the ranked Q's are filled with people who are extremely selfish and ignorant and this goes for all elo( while getting much better ofc after about 1800-1900 but still in existence in those elo). Now I have been bouncing back and forth in solo Q between 1200-1300 even dropping to 1100. Mostly this is because as soon as those selfish ignorant players catch a whiff of possibility their game is a loss they begin to slowly give up and/or harass team. Where as the same players play another game and they are in a winning vibe therefore crush the other team. Since kids these days are all winners (so their told...) they cannot accept the fact that they could possibly be the reason they dont win. And once they know they in fact arent gonna win all effort goes out the window. Now I have been in the Q's just like all of you and yea wow its freaking annoying the level of intelligence is very low most of the time. I believe that the only way to gauge your own play and earn true elo is through a premade team. So make a team with friends or people on forums. Also I think that riot or maybe a streamer/caster should make a program on stream where you breakdown play, objectives, items, map awareness, what to look for at certain times of game, laning goals, team fights, team comps and etc. Now you are spreading the knowledge of the game to many players and improving the average players understanding of WHY they are doing these things in game. I would do this myself but I have a **** computer and no equipment for which to stream with . Really though this problem can be solved by just educating players on the current meta and flow of the game imo.


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lockpooh

Senior Member

06-13-2012

Quote:
DebosBike:
People on here just rage about ELO hell because they've reached a point where teamwork starts to come into play and they don't have any. They're the same people that say ELO should be calculated based on individual performance.


I didn't expect some reasoning to be posted in this thread.

The people posting above expect to be carried to 1.8k+ rating by relying on games where 5 randoms of your team outplay 5 randoms on their team in more then 50% of every game played in every lane are living in a dream. To get more games where everyone of your lane outplays everyone of their lane and jungle is highly improbable. To those that say your ello hell is about skill, well, good luck relying on 5 randoms to outskill 5 other randoms. Because you all seem to know that if 1 lanes falls due to lack of skill, it's all their fault when the result is a loss.

Your loss certainly wasn't because of lack of team work. Keep up your demoralizing, it's a lot easier to lose and blame the losing lane then to win a game by extending your skill beyond your lane and helping others win their lanes.


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Dennis912

Junior Member

06-13-2012

Im not sure why you have this idea that the grass is greener past 1200 it isnt. Trolls exist throughout that elo trust me. You have to understand that in higher elo you may not get the troll who comes into lobby ready to ruin game(I say may cause it still happens) but you get the trolls who are like Fthis we aint gonna win our carry was just FB afk fountain or my favorite man this jungler never ganks my lane( which should read man i never ward and constantly overextend but I digress). So yea bro you dont have much to look forward to if you think once you hit 1200 its all gonna be good. Like I said in my previous post make a team then your elo will reflect your teams play w/o any trolly variables.


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BlackJesus101

Senior Member

06-13-2012

Quote:
Dennis912:
Im not sure why you have this idea that the grass is greener past 1200 it isnt. Trolls exist throughout that elo trust me. You have to understand that in higher elo you may not get the troll who comes into lobby ready to ruin game(I say may cause it still happens) but you get the trolls who are like Fthis we aint gonna win our carry was just FB afk fountain or my favorite man this jungler never ganks my lane( which should read man i never ward and constantly overextend but I digress). So yea bro you dont have much to look forward to if you think once you hit 1200 its all gonna be good. Like I said in my previous post make a team then your elo will reflect your teams play w/o any trolly variables.


case in point at the start of season two SEVERAL pro players got stuck at mid or low elo these are people that play the game for a living and require skill to even stay pro
elo hell is not a particular area it is everywhere it is an inadequate system that judges a persons individual skill based on team victories that are reliant on getting competent teams in the first place if you put dyrus on a team that doesnt know what they are doign who lose their lanes dont communicate and ignore map objectives he is going to have a pretty hard time raising his elo without duo queuing