Wild cards and map control - too much?

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Smolder

Senior Member

07-28-2009

As was said, if Wild Cards were changed the problem would dissapear. His mobility is not the issue as much as what he is capable of when he gets there.

I would like to see WC changed so that each card does drastically less damage to each target it hits after the first (think chain lighting.) By "drastically" I mean hardcore, nerf that **** drastically; 50% less damage to each target after the first cumulatively.

This would keep WC good for skill shots and nuking people close enough to get hit by all three cards, but make it far less useful for lane clearing . It would also change what I feel to be the biggest problem with WC: Cardmaster can stand at the back of group fights and spam the **** out of the spell, and during those kinds of battles it is extremely difficult to just dodge the cards.


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Repo

Junior Member

07-29-2009

Dodge the cards, slaughter him, you win? I feel bad for the future of some heroes with so many people complaining over the small things.


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TenToedPete1

Adjudicator

07-29-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smolder View Post
As was said, if Wild Cards were changed the problem would dissapear. His mobility is not the issue as much as what he is capable of when he gets there.

I would like to see WC changed so that each card does drastically less damage to each target it hits after the first (think chain lighting.) By "drastically" I mean hardcore, nerf that **** drastically; 50% less damage to each target after the first cumulatively.

This would keep WC good for skill shots and nuking people close enough to get hit by all three cards, but make it far less useful for lane clearing . It would also change what I feel to be the biggest problem with WC: Cardmaster can stand at the back of group fights and spam the **** out of the spell, and during those kinds of battles it is extremely difficult to just dodge the cards.
this is actually a really good suggestion to balance out wild cards. It would really reduce the damage it can put out in team fights, without totally screwing it over as decent nuke.

Quote:
Dodge the cards, slaughter him, you win? I feel bad for the future of some heroes with so many people complaining over the small things.
You obviously have not seen a half decent AP cardmaster in action if you think its something small


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FrozenStorm

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Senior Member

07-29-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Repo View Post
Dodge the cards, slaughter him, you win? I feel bad for the future of some heroes with so many people complaining over the small things.
I'm theorycrafting as my delay was so bad I couldn't even play yesterday, but if someone were disabling to help, the damage output of CM would be catastrophic the way Wild Card is currently.

Agree that cards should deal reduced damage based on number of units they go through. That would allow it to still be decently useful for farming but not broken, and useful as a single target nuke but not as a team wiping monstrosity.

Most likely mana cost or cooldown will have to be raised, as well as damage slightly lowered, but for the time being reduced damage per target damaged would be a big improvement.


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CaptHarlock

Senior Member

07-29-2009

Just a general question, don't they plan to have over 40 champions on release date? If so, then CM might not be as bad as many of you think. Ashe is just as good/better than CM imho. Warwick, Soraka, Veiger, Annie, Evelynn, Lich, and most of the tanks are also very strong heroes and offer just as much or more to the team fight/game as CM. I just think they need to make the other heroes better, mainly the lategame carry melee dps heroes like Jax and Yi.

The only thing I believe they may need to do is not make the higher levels of teleport NOT have such a short cd. I think the initially cd is nice, but at lvl 3+, it's ridiculously short. Also, they need to make his W ability better by having it lock since it's not really twitch based as advertised. I was hoping for some twitch play action on him when I first played him ><


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Kaneh

Member

07-29-2009

alot of the people saying he's fine as is aren't taking into account that he can do many things at once.

Again, he's a:
great team battle hero
one of the top farmers
one of the top pushers
one of the top gankers

all at the same time. It's the "all at the same time" that makes him a little imbalanced. Granted, it does take a fair amount of skill and map awareness to pull off his full potential, but he can still do it all.


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TiberiusAudley

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Adjudicator

07-29-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiffy View Post
it should probably be that in close range multiple cards from WC can hit the same person.
Guinsoo confirmed yesterday that damage only calculates once per target regardless of how many cards hit them.


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CaptHarlock

Senior Member

07-29-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaneh View Post
alot of the people saying he's fine as is aren't taking into account that he can do many things at once.

Again, he's a:
great team battle hero
one of the top farmers
one of the top pushers
one of the top gankers

all at the same time. It's the "all at the same time" that makes him a little imbalanced. Granted, it does take a fair amount of skill and map awareness to pull off his full potential, but he can still do it all.
Imba compared to what? Ashe has ridiculous slows and does the most damage period. Ryze has a great disable and does huge group AoE damage. Soryaka gives everyone crazy mana and staying power. Like I said, I don't think he's fine, since I think the main problem lies with his ridiculously low cd on Gate(lvl 1 and 2 is okay, but 3+ is just way too low), but that's about it. Also, his pick a card is not quite working as of now.

I think EVERY hero at the moment is not "fine". Each hero needs a few tweaks/overhauls to get up to the polish needed for a competitive game.


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Nsaneomatic

Adjudicator

07-29-2009

The only thing i want is for his teleport skill to break on damage. I know it breaks on stun. Its too good when it doesnt break on damage.


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rushe

Junior Member

07-29-2009

I don't think Gate is that bad, maybe add 5-10 seconds on the cooldown. I always envisioned CM as kind of a "battle furion" who can really mess up teams who don't have the coordination to counter succesfully (ie, predicting where CM will gate next). However, personally I do not find CM's wild cards to be amazingly unbalanced. Even though they have a ridiculous range, at the longer ranges it becomes easier and easier to dodge reasonably well. If he's firing it from short range, he's in range for you to mess him up with his low survivability. In good hands CM can be devastating which is why I am drawn to his character; he is very versatile in how he can be played and this is a very positive thing.

As long as he's properly dealt with in early stages and he doesn't get a decisive advantage over the opposing team, then he becomes basically normal. I don't think this warrants a nerf.

Overall though, I don't think CM should be nerfed significantly in lieu of a paradigm shift in the way players counter/handle him.