Wild cards and map control - too much?

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Janna Windforce

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Senior Member

07-28-2009

I'd like to keep the Twisted Fate discussion condensed to one thread, any chance we can switch this over to the stacking the cards thread .

Edit: I think the problem isn't wild card mana cost. Right now it's too much as it is, even mid game I find myself blowing my load quickly, having to blue pill and gate back in. I think the problem is the combination of blue pill and gate. Give them a linked cooldown and I guarantee TF won't be as imba as you think.


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pandamine

Adjudicator

07-28-2009

That would kill his character, blue pill and gate was never an issue with him. The issue is giving a champion the ability to wipe creep waves instantly + massive nuke.

You give any champion that wild cards skill and they wiill suddenly become problematic -> thats the issue


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Janna Windforce

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Senior Member

07-28-2009

If you take away blue pill and teleport TF won't bounce around the map wiping out creep waves just because it's mana intensive unless you buy a Tear early. He'd have to pick between wiping creep waves or being useless in team fights. His ult hurts the pool (~300 at rank 1, and you've only got a 600 mana pool) immensely, even through a fiendish codex. Take away blue pill+tp and he won't be bouncing all over the front line owning as hard as he is right now.


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FalseMyrmidon

Senior Member

07-28-2009

Wild Cards is relatively easy to dodge during early laning if you pay attention.


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Harasame

Senior Member

07-28-2009

I don't see a problem with his Wild Cards early, but the range is sort of long, and I guess AP stacking could be a problem. I've only played with TF once and against many times, but I've never had a problem with him. Even if they do stack AP, he shouldn't be able to deal it out fast enough in a team fight to make an absolutely huge difference. Plus as I've always seen he dies fairly fast. Again, I haven't seen much of him so I can't really say with certainty.


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PiousFlea

The Council

07-28-2009

Twisted Fate is the same as Evelynn. If you let him get fed he will dominate the entire game, but if he's equal level/gear to everyone else he's not very strong.


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TenToedPete1

Adjudicator

07-28-2009

Quote:
Wild Cards is relatively easy to dodge during early laning if you pay attention
thats not the problem. With even a little AP wild cards can 1shot an entire creep wave. with a decent amount of AP (easily attainable, as he can 1shot creepwaves) they really start to hurt. In a team fight it is hard/impossible for everyone to dodge them. for every person he hits, its 500+ damage, on a 2-3 second cooldown. I have played with him stacked AP, and it is rediculous the amount of damage it can put out in a team fight, if you manage to stay back a bit so you dont get bursted down.

Quote:
Twisted Fate is the same as Evelynn. If you let him get fed he will dominate the entire game, but if he's equal level/gear to everyone else he's not very strong
Yes, i agree. The difference is, Twisted Fate has the skillset to farm up easily, while evelynn isnt as good a farmer, unless she can get alot of champion kills.


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R oL

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Member

07-28-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by PiousFlea View Post
Twisted Fate is the same as Evelynn. If you let him get fed he will dominate the entire game, but if he's equal level/gear to everyone else he's not very strong.
As TenToedPete mentioned, that is 100% correct.

The issues I see with TF are as follows:
Mobility mobility mobility mobility.

Early game, you have unlimited mana, you can spam Wild Card as much as you want, Pill to base, regen mana, gate back. While your cards may not be 1 shotting creep waves at this point, constant barrages will undoubtly hit enemy heroes while beginning to rack up kills. He has the ability to regen mana at the fountain early game with literally missing no exp.

Mid game, as his gate grows in level you are able to start controlling multiple lanes. By this point you generally have 1 shot cards. You take out 2-3 waves in a lane, Pill back for mana, and gate to the next lane.

Fix him by putting a 20-30 second cooldown on gate whenever you complete a Blue Pill. No need to change Wild Card. The change to gating will prevent early game dominance and mid game 1 shot laning.


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Spiffy

Adjudicator

07-28-2009

As much as I love AP cardmaster. It is getting a little silly. I ended at 767 AP tonight, (my Wild Cards were hitting each target for 1100) with 19 kills. Interestingly enough, the opposing cardmaster went all physical damage items and got farmed up as well, but I murdered him 1 on 1. Lich Bane really shines with him as well. If anything should be nerfed, it should probably be that in close range multiple cards from WC can hit the same person.

There's two ways you can go at this... you could either force him to be physical by nerfing the WC coefficient drastically, or you could reduce WC damage while adding AP scaling to Pick a Card. And also, making Pick a Card lockable like Cryo's missile. Currently, I rarely ever use Pick a Card unless I'm between cooldowns on WC or running.


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Ron Fendo

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Senior Member

07-28-2009

Just had a game where twisted fate never stopped hitting q and throwing cards because soroka stood behind him and fed him mana.No counter to it, try to gank theres a heal waiting unless you have tons of stuns. They pushed 2 towers down in about 7-8 mins. Because you can't get near them. A bigger CD on q needs to be implimented.