Wild cards and map control - too much?

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TenToedPete1

Adjudicator

07-28-2009

Twisted fate is just too much. Wild cards is an amazingly strong nuke, scales super well with ability power, has a super low cooldown (i think 5 seconds base, gets down to around 2 seconds cooldown with masteries + golem buff), and really long range, and once you have about +100 ap, it can 1shot creep waves. By itself, for these reasons its one of the best nukes in the game imo.

Next, add on the ability to gate anywhere on the map. This allows the cardmaster to teleport to a lane, push it easily with the afore mentioned wild cards, gain a bucket load of gold, then when the enemies notice you are pushing that lane and come to stop you, blue pill out, and do it again in another lane. Using this strategy twisted fate is able to farm well, and keep the other team on the defensive. If the other team is trying to push, CM can go to another lane and push it, then if really needed on defense, teleport back.

So, with these two abilities twisted fate sounds like he should be a pusher, but in reality he is a strong dps champion. For all his pushing prowess, hes actually very strong in both small fights, and full team battles. Stay back and fire off your cards every 2-3 seconds, each dealing (provided you have farmed well) 500 - 1000 damage. To justify those numbers, its not hard to get 200 ap on CM. It is harder to get the 700 odd AP required for 1k cards, but it is possible, although maybe not as much in a pros game.

Destiny is just the icing on the cake. Reveal all enemy champions, slow them stupidly and if that wasnt enough, reduce the cast time on teleport to around 1.5 seconds. This ability allows cardmaster to gank and escape with alarming ease (especially as he can pop it, then gate out, which does not break casting on damage). Using this in the mid game phase can quite often find an enemy alone, be it in the jungle, or running through a lane. If cardmaster has farmed decently, gating ontop of them pretty much garauntees him a kill.


Overall, as i have outlined above, twisted fate is too strong. All of his abilities (and ive even ignored pick a card, as with the AP fate, its not really needed, although its still a very good ability) are good by themselves, but in a package, are too much to handle.

What i propose, are several changes, if twisted fate is to be left with these as his current spells. Wild cards needs to have one or several of the following done to it; longer cooldown, worse AP scaling, less range, slower flight time (easier to dodge), higher or mana cost. What i would ideally want to see is reduce it to a 7-8 second cooldown, and reduce the range. This would make ability power still a useful stat on him, and the cards would still hurt, but he would be able to sit back and spam it a lot less.
Gate/Destiny need to be toned down, perhaps limiting gate to be targetted in an area that you currently have vision would be a step in the right direction, but probably wouldnt address all the issues. Im not exactly sure how to balance these out, but with a nerfed wild cards, his gate lane pushing wouldnt feel quite as powerful as it currently does


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redit

Adjudicator

07-28-2009

Quote:
(especially as he can pop it, then gate out, which does not break casting on damage)
It does break on stun though, as it is channeling. Timing is required - it's hard but once you learn, it's possible and this basically nullified. That being said his Wild Cards does have a slightly too long range - and PERHAPS a too short cooldown. In any case it's scaling is insane.


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MammothWaffle

Adjudicator

07-28-2009

No to slower projectile speed, its easy to dodge as is already. No to the longer cooldown, right now its pretty long another 2 to 3 seconds could mean life or death of a champion thats quite a bit added. Changing the AP scaling will only make him useless if you go AP, obviously. This leaves us with range, I can deal with a range nerf and I do admit the range is kind of ridiculous now.


While on topic of Twisted Fate, I would also like to add a bug report on him (Still going in my wrap-up thread). Even if you have a card locked, throw the card but your target walks out of range the card STILL hits the player but does not activate the locked card. This is kind of annoying.


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SilverSeraphim

Adjudicator

07-28-2009

I think you should be able to "lock" a card by pressing the spell hotkey a second time, like how Cryophoenix's Q spell works. It would be more noob friendly than attack/cancelling IMO.


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TenToedPete1

Adjudicator

07-28-2009

Quote:
No to slower projectile speed, its easy to dodge as is already. No to the longer cooldown, right now its pretty long another 2 to 3 seconds could mean life or death of a champion thats quite a bit added. Changing the AP scaling will only make him useless if you go AP, obviously. This leaves us with range, I can deal with a range nerf and I do admit the range is kind of ridiculous now.
it is easy to dodge, but it does travel fast, and is spammed, in the heat of combat you cannot dodge it easily. if you dont dodge, its a massive damage nuke. As for longer cooldown, if it went to 7-8 seconds, it would probably be able to be reduced to 5 seconds with cooldown reduction items, which is alright. With CD reduction items atm a 2 second cooldown is freaking retarded. Changing the AP scaling wont make him worthless, just a reduction, say from 1:1 to 0.75:1 or something, so when he gets +500 AP his cards deal 675 (300 base + 375 damage), not 800. it wouldnt be a major nerf, just a rebalacing. A range nerf is probably needed ontop of nerfing another part of the spell


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Zeta

Senior Member

07-28-2009

Twisted Fate is already easy to dodge. He doesn't have the raw power to deal with more powerful nukers or tanks if they know what they're doing late game.


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pandamine

Adjudicator

07-28-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeta View Post
Twisted Fate is already easy to dodge. He doesn't have the raw power to deal with more powerful nukers or tanks if they know what they're doing late game.
Uh....?

No offense but have you played him

His Q skill has like 1K casting range at least, no powerful nuker is able to nuke him from that distance apart from possible Annie. Likwise tanks are not even going to be able to touch him

His Q skill might be easy to dodge in a lane, but in a team battle its an entirely different story


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Removable Disk F

Senior Member

07-28-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by pandamine View Post
His Q skill might be easy to dodge in a lane, but in a team battle its an entirely different story
It's rare that any move is easy/easier to dodge in a team fight, unless by dodge you mean "have it hit the guy next to me instead of actually hitting me."

Leave Twisted Fate alone. I hereby decree that this is another thread to ***** about Morgana's shield.


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Zeta

Senior Member

07-28-2009

Quote:
Uh....?

No offense but have you played him
I've played against him in nearly every game I've ever been in as several different characters, and he's not at all hard to fight against once you know what you're doing.


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Kaneh

Member

07-28-2009

No, he's not hard to fight directly. That's not the problem. The problem is he can keep all the lanes pushed into your side by himself. And still be very good in a team battle.

Teleport isn't a combat skill, it's a map control skill. You're saying that he's balanced as a combat character. That's fine. But he's also the best map control character (ganking and pushing both). That makes him somewhat imbalanced.


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