Wouldnt Darius be balanced...

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Bloodpaly

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Senior Member

06-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FromageEnroulent View Post
wanna know a secret? if you ward the river, you can actually SEE people coming to gank you. makes it a hell of a lot easier to survive a gank if you arent there when they show up yeah?
shhh don't tell people bout maphacks or u might get banned.


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EzraTwitch

Senior Member

06-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FromageEnroulent View Post
then check your numbers, i made a post comparing him to garen under yours somewhere. he trumps garen in every aspect. in every single one of your comparisons to other AD casters, you didnt even mention the retarded true damage of his ultimate, which is what this is about.

the difference between him and all those other awesome guys is that you cant build armor to counter him.

also, whats with this?

with a moderate build his ult will do close to 1k true damage. that can kill a carry from half health, and most others save HP builders from 1/3 health. how much more of a crutch do you need to execute someone?
You can build health to counter him, Which you cant do for Garen, everybody has a counter.

Also you apparently haven't done the math. Assuming 100 AD.

Garens Maximum Burst versus a Single target=1706 (Not counting bonus damage from Critical Strike% which he would normally get)

Darius Maximum Burst versus a Single Target=1466 (Not counting bonus damage from Critical Strike % because he doesnt get bonuses from Critical Strike %.

Now do to the true damage and passive armor pen. Garen becomes weaker in damage output if they are building Armor and MR. But do to the fact that his Ult scales off missing health he becomes stronger then Darius versus targets that stack health. So in terms of dps, they are relatively equal.

However in every other aspect besides damage Garen is the clear victor.
Innate Tankiness.
Sustain.
CC.(What would you have, Darius yank the enemy AP carry into the middle of the team where unleashes his whole burst before dying, or Garen running into the middle of the enemy taking the focus and silenceing the AP carry where he does nothing before dying.)
Mobility.

Garen is better then Darius, learn math.


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Bloodpaly

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06-07-2012

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Originally Posted by EzraTwitch View Post
You can build health to counter him, Which you cant do for Garen, everybody has a counter.

Also you apparently haven't done the math. Assuming 100 AD.

Garens Maximum Burst versus a Single target=1706 (Not counting bonus damage from Critical Strike% which he would normally get)

Darius Maximum Burst versus a Single Target=1466 (Not counting bonus damage from Critical Strike % because he doesnt get bonuses from Critical Strike %.

Now do to the true damage and passive armor pen. Garen becomes weaker in damage output if they are building Armor and MR. But do to the fact that his Ult scales of missing health he becomes stronger then Darius versus targets that stack health. So in terms of dps, they are relatively equal.

However in every other aspect besides damage Garen is the clear victor.
Innate Tankiness.
Sustain.
CC.
Mobility.

Garen is better then Darius, learn math.
Can grab people over walls. And I doubt you calculated in AA resets if Darius times his abilities properly and the fact that Darius doesn't become unscary for 100+ seconds when he gets a kill.

Or how easy it is for a target to have 30% + physical/magical resistance and makes true damage/25% armor pen look much more sexy.


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EzraTwitch

Senior Member

06-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodpaly View Post
How many characters can sustain early vs his 105 dmg Q w/ a 1.05 ratio that is also applying another 12 + .3 ad bleed every 9 sec at 425 range?
And then later, dat 200% ad + aa reset W means that no one can fight him in a drawn out fight. Especially since is also lowers attack speed by a fair amount.
Warwick, Cho'Gath, Udyr, with any item they want.

Anybody else in the game with armor 5 health pots.

They only have to sustain for 3:15 seconds maximum, at which point you freeze the lane at our tower, safe farm and watch Darius zone himself or die to ganks.


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Vedergallning

Senior Member

06-07-2012

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Originally Posted by blood000 View Post
why can't Garen's ult refresh?
I've sen a lot of people say that already, but I think Garen needs WAY more reworks to his other abilities before anything happens to his ult. His abilities scale way too poorly into late game.


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2pudge1cup

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06-07-2012

just make his refresh based on bleed stacks.

full bleed stack = full refresh.

no bleed stacks = 50% refresh

stacks linearly. that way he still has to execute some kind of combo before just running in and r'ing everyone late in a fight.


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Graszwhistle

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06-07-2012

Even prenerf darius wasn't that great in high elo. He is very easily countered since he lacks sustain, CC, or escapes.

What you are proposing would make him worse than Xin.


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EzraTwitch

Senior Member

06-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodpaly View Post
Can grab people over walls. And I doubt you calculated in AA resets if Darius times his abilities properly and the fact that Darius doesn't become unscary for 100+ seconds when he gets a kill.

Or how easy it is for a target to have 30% + physical/magical resistance and makes true damage/25% armor pen look much more sexy.
Your right he can grab people over walls if they are within nidalee dash range. He has an advantage their woohoo.

Both of them have 1 aa reset, so thats really not a viable argument.

And I already said Darius is better versus people who are stacking Armor/MR, which doesnt negate the point that Garen is better vs. People stacking health. Remember (assuming 100 AD on each) Garen has nearly 500 damage more then Darius with out factoring in bonus damage he is practically guaranteed to get

As far him becoming unscary, he is unscary.
Unless he gets that kill, he becomes less scary then Garen do to the fact that he has worse damage, worse CC, and worse tankiness. He is only Scary if gets his kill AND gets it with his ult, which would be fine if he still had the grace period. But with out the grace period the odds of you actually scoring the killing blow in a pitched team fight in time for it to matter (Given your lack of Hard CC and slow @ss attack speed) are close to nil.

Darius Damage Threat with out his ult. 352 base+(2.35 Scale off Bonus AD)
Garen Damage Threat with out his ult. 720 base+(5.6 Scale off Bonus AD, and Additional Damage from Crit % not factored).

With out his ult Darius is terrible, which was why nerfing the refresh grace period completely screwed him. He was already mediocre at best, now he's just bad (unless your bad, in which case he's OMG OP, same as Xin, same as Eve).


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OK Migi

Senior Member

06-07-2012

I swear, he is strong but is really easily countered by anyone ranged any CC, and anyone who is not stupid enough to one on one him. Seriously, in a teamfight he is a A JOKE, When i play support I laugh as he tries to get to my carrys to ult them because I play janna and he cant touch them. When I play jungle I laugh as he tries to escape my ganks, he is just..all damage.


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iDerp Solo

Senior Member

06-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by EzraTwitch View Post
Would you rather an enemy champ run solo into the middle of your team, or an ally champ run solo into the middle of their team?
You posted a lot of words, but this is what I got out of it.