A map idea involving more than just a generic request

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DonnFirinne

Senior Member

06-06-2012

@TeknoWizard
I think the central area should stay free of neutral creeps, leave it as a place for team v team fighting. I'm not sure about vision there. Maybe like the center of Dominion, so you can see a limited area around it, perhaps just enough so you can see the flag and if anyone is trying to capture it, but not revealing the whole area, so when leaving you don't necessarily give away your direction.

I really don't know about what happens when minions reach the other side. I think it needs some mechanic to equalize the lanes if they're left alone, so maybe a minion-only tower at the ends of the lanes, or minions growing weaker as they travel along the lane, so if you push your lane you'll be meeting with stronger and stronger enemy minions who can slowly push it back to normal.

I have no idea about buffs. I think a team-wide MS buff on the Epic and maybe Legendary monsters could work well and make them important to control, but other than that I really have no idea. I'm not familiar with TT at all other than its layout so I don't have anything more than SR to draw from, but that's why I want community input. If you have ideas for the buffs put them out in detail here.


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OliverTheAwsome

Member

06-06-2012

Would having the flag affect stealth or would Eve actually be useful?


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DonnFirinne

Senior Member

06-06-2012

@OliverTheAwsome
I'd say having the flag would keep you out of stealth. I'm also not going to say much else about stealth considering Riot wants to keep it underplayed until they can come up with a way that doesn't make the game un-fun.


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Warm One

Senior Member

06-06-2012

Way too many pathways. Wall jumpers would have a feast on this map. So would junglers. Good Lord is that a lot of neutral minion farm.


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iComeBacks

Junior Member

06-06-2012

everyone needs to thumbs up the OP so we can have riot look and pay attention to this, it would be a great addition to LoL


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Lasie

Senior Member

06-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonnFirinne View Post
Thank you for the feedback, this is exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for.

I considered a slow on the flag, and depending on how things go in the future, maybe that is the way to go, but I would like to keep the minion attack slow because it allows for more strategic play. For example, a team might try to shove their lane right before they grab a flag so that they can get closer to the base faster. Or they might have their junglers run through the enemy's jungle ahead of the flag bearer to clear the camps out. And if a team knew they wouldn't be able to contest capturing the flag they might leave their jungle alone and defend it as best as they could to give themselves an advantage there. There are just so many more possibilities with the minion slow.

I hadn't even thought of separating the jungles, partly because I didn't want to dictate how many junglers there could be, but mostly because to do so would involve either a wall down the center, greatly decreasing mobility from one side to the other, or a path, greatly increasing mobility from the flag to the base. I set up the jungle to make it difficult to move quickly from the center to the base so that flashing over one wall and popping ghost wouldn't be viable. Either way, the number of camps is more important to the number of junglers than the setup, at least in my opinion. I'm not going to assume how the people of LoL will want to jungle this map. I mean, if they play AP Jarvan sometimes, can you really tell what they're ever going to do?

Very good suggestions though, and I really hope more people have ideas like this to share.
well I thought a slow simmular to the current red buff slow in SF. that way its not to overbearing but a head start can be compensated for. or we could have it scaling on a percentage like 5% of your max speed. But I was just thinking it would suck for a fed master yi Noob with 5 phantoms dancers to grab the flag and carry it without anyone being able to catch him. Also it cant be so strong a slow that a slow champ cant carry it without dying. Now just or arguments sake we could say that a carried flag is visable to the defending team. that would encourage more teamwork to capture the flag. also we would have to worry about turrets. Would they respawn with the flag or would they just stay dead. Cause if one team destroys all the turrets it would be a huge advantage for them to be able to cap the flag without any turrets to worry about. also respawning turrets would also promote more teamwork but also increase the skill level by alot. And as for the separate jungles I wasnt thinking like they were separated by a wall in the middle. but that they had the big buffs in the middle and too many neutral minions for one jungler to effectivly jungle. (except in special champion picks IE fiora or shyvanna) but I would try to make it so the best choice is two junglers, but not three. cause a one person lane being ganked by three chanpions would just suck and is almost a guarenteed kill. As for the buffs you could have the two best ones (maybe comparable to SR's buffs) spawn in the center of the jungle so that you could pull both for the junglers and the lanes would be able to grab them if they need them.


well thats all I got for now. hope it helps.
I will be watching this post and offering feedback. thanks
Lasie


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DonnFirinne

Senior Member

06-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warm One View Post
Way too many pathways. Wall jumpers would have a feast on this map. So would junglers. Good Lord is that a lot of neutral minion farm.
There are so many pathways and jungle creeps to support multiple junglers. It's a large map, necessitating a larger team, but with no way for that many people to be in lane at once, the jungle must provide them with farm. The idea is that one jungler could not keep the jungle farmed.
For wall jumpers, there are a limited number of wall jumping mechanics on any given champion. Even if you give them flash, I think they would max out at 2 wall jumps in any run through the jungle. As long as Riot doesn't make a champion whose entire kit is jumping over walls it should be fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iComeBacks View Post
everyone needs to thumbs up the OP so we can have riot look and pay attention to this, it would be a great addition to LoL
Thank you for your support.

@Lasie
Flag slow: Maybe something small like 10% could work. But if there's a slow then I do like the idea of increased defensive stats like you mentioned before. The hard part is fine tuning it so that getting the flag doesn't make some champs too slow, and doesn't make other champs too tanky.
Flag Vision I don't really know about putting vision on the flag for the enemy team. I think that would make it much harder for the flag-holding team. Remember even if they get all the way to the base, they still have to get inside somehow. I'm still not sure how well that is going to go with the current setup. It shouldn't be too easy to stand in the entrance to the base and stonewall the other team out.
Turrets Right now I'm with you on this and turrets are low on my list. I added into the original post an idea I like better. As minions move from the base to the midline they get gradually weaker, meaning that the closer you push to the enemy base the harder it is to keep your lane pushed that far, and that if left alone (like when a team goes to take a global objective) the lane would tend to push back to the middle.
JungleI did try to set it up for two junglers, with two Minor buffs in the circle of each jungle, one top and one bottom, and another two major buffs on the outside. Those could easily change to be equally powerful and more like Red and Blue on SR. Most of the jungle was arbitrary lines, so I'm not set on any of it.

Thank you again Lasie, and everyone else giving feedback and thumbs up.


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Verandure

Senior Member

06-07-2012

Instead of trying to figure out a debuff to give, just make it so the flag directly negates any ms. You run at the base speed (the mastery points could be an exception so that people could build for a flag carrier). I don't think it should be trees; instead, I would recommend a swamp where the small bits of landmass can give you longer vision and the water gives less and gives a speed debuff. You wouldn't have to worry about wall jumpers, and you also wouldn't get full vision of the map. The central dais where the flag is kept would probably end up being cobblestone (likely a ruin).

I don't think kills should get points at all. In the beginning, you're going to have a [6v6] deadlock at the center where you could easily rack up 15 or so points without even touching the flag. Giving points for kills also helps people who turtle defensively either at the flag or near their base.

A way to drop the flag would be to have it as an inventory slot where clicking the number of the slot or the icon will drop the flag.

For turrets, I would recommend having it to where the two sides can pool team gold together in order to build them. Not at the beginning so that the team who gets the flag cannot be caught. Another way to do it would be to make the turrets not have seeking projectiles so that you can dodge them


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Lasie

Senior Member

06-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verandure View Post
Instead of trying to figure out a debuff to give, just make it so the flag directly negates any ms. You run at the base speed (the mastery points could be an exception so that people could build for a flag carrier). I don't think it should be trees; instead, I would recommend a swamp where the small bits of landmass can give you longer vision and the water gives less and gives a speed debuff. You wouldn't have to worry about wall jumpers, and you also wouldn't get full vision of the map. The central dais where the flag is kept would probably end up being cobblestone (likely a ruin).
I like this idea alot. altho I still think that you should be able to have some walls because for some champs like leblanc dashing over walls is huge for how she plays. but if you could incorporate both. (the swamp and the walls) then it would be huge fun without so many walls that it takes to fun out of it for champs like sivir who cant go through walls


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DonnFirinne

Senior Member

06-07-2012

@Verandure
Flag Debuff: I do like the idea of putting the flag bearer on an even playing field with everyone else, but maybe instead of bringing them to their base MS, maybe cut out everything but boots, and maybe abilities. This way buying boots of speed/mobility can be worthwhile for the flag bearer, and abilities like Highlander, Overdrive, and the like are still worth having, but stacking PDs isn't. How does that sound?
Swamp Area:I like this idea a little bit, but I agree with Lasie's comment that walls are important to plenty of champs. I will take a look at the map and maybe add some swampy paths through existing walls and add some swamp to existing paths. I like the reduced vision in the swamp, and I think a slight slow in it will help balance out the increased mobility on the map.
Dropping the Flag: This is important, but I think having it bound to a hotkey (G?) would be fine.

Good feedback, keep it up.


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