help with kassadin

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GlideStrife

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08-26-2010

Proper use of Lichbane makes Kassadin into a "Hybrid" anyway. Just not with hybrid stats, instead, a pure AP hero that uses that AP for melee damage. Alot of people are against Lichbane's use on Kass, but I just don't feel right without it. =P


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kijik

Senior Member

08-26-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by peyo View Post
sure, it doesn't mean he's a God. He never said that. But he is in high ELO and his build is great (I used to run very similar to his and did great too, changed to his build and now it does even better)

Ofc, you're the God here. Especially with Perseverance, Expanded Mind and imp. Ignite masteries

I used to run Doran's Ring for a long time. Now I've switched to Doran's Shield and it's just much MUCH better.
Void Staff is a joke right now.

Also, Soraka is your WORST lane mate. You need another bursty champ with some CC preferably. With Soraka all you can do is farm, while Kassadin, as a ganker, needs kills. Lane with Pantheon pre-nerf was almost 100% kill by level 3.
because 10% less time spent dead is totally helpful considering if you're playing right you'll die maybe 3 times in a game. and expanded mind is just enough mana to help make sure you don't need to buy a mana item sparing the late game frozen heart and the obligatory catalyst. Besides that the experience mastery doesn't really help unless you're solo, so hey if you're solo, pack that ****, if not, don't even trip on it, and yes, while I may not have done the math myself, a reliable source of mine has, and it's pointless unless you're jungling or solo. doran's shield is nice and all, but the extra ap to make up for his lack of well anything early game is great, but that's a to each his own sort of thing.
the reason for the imp ignite is again, extra AP early, and because exhaust/ignite both have low cooldowns, so the 21 point utility talent isn't very useful.

I never said I was a God, if you can prove to me there's a better core build and playstyle for kassadin, please do tell. But I will say that back when I did play before I left for Basic Training, I was the most dominant AP kassadin in the game, DOGKaiser played physical and we competed for best overall kassadin, his only advantage was that he played with the big boys, while I preferred running into them in queue occasionally and stomping them.

Edit: Soraka makes an amazing lane mate because she 1. solves your issue early game with oh, uh, idk, dying. 2. if she's played right she can use zone control to allow you to free farm, along with harassing enemies into burst kill range, 3. her spamming fuels the everliving hell out of force pulse charges, along with her being able to make sure you always have the mana to cast it. 4. double silence, need I say more? 5. bear in mind this was written back before ezreal came out, yeah, sure things have changed a bit, but kass still remains effectively the same, and while there may be better alternatives for lane mates now (for example akali would be a great surprise buttsex lane mate) the fact still stands what I put down as great lanemates are still, great, lanemates.


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peyo

Senior Member

08-26-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by kijik View Post
because 10% less time spent dead is totally helpful considering if you're playing right you'll die maybe 3 times in a game. and expanded mind is just enough mana to help make sure you don't need to buy a mana item sparing the late game frozen heart and the obligatory catalyst. Besides that the experience mastery doesn't really help unless you're solo, so hey if you're solo, pack that ****, if not, don't even trip on it, and yes, while I may not have done the math myself, a reliable source of mine has, and it's pointless unless you're jungling or solo. doran's shield is nice and all, but the extra ap to make up for his lack of well anything early game is great, but that's a to each his own sort of thing.
the reason for the imp ignite is again, extra AP early, and because exhaust/ignite both have low cooldowns, so the 21 point utility talent isn't very useful.

I never said I was a God, if you can prove to me there's a better core build and playstyle for kassadin, please do tell. But I will say that back when I did play before I left for Basic Training, I was the most dominant AP kassadin in the game, DOGKaiser played physical and we competed for best overall kassadin, his only advantage was that he played with the big boys, while I preferred running into them in queue occasionally and stomping them.

Edit: Soraka makes an amazing lane mate because she 1. solves your issue early game with oh, uh, idk, dying. 2. if she's played right she can use zone control to allow you to free farm, along with harassing enemies into burst kill range, 3. her spamming fuels the everliving hell out of force pulse charges, along with her being able to make sure you always have the mana to cast it. 4. double silence, need I say more? 5. bear in mind this was written back before ezreal came out, yeah, sure things have changed a bit, but kass still remains effectively the same, and while there may be better alternatives for lane mates now (for example akali would be a great surprise buttsex lane mate) the fact still stands what I put down as great lanemates are still, great, lanemates.
here's the topic I made few days ago on why Perseverance is pathetic.
http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...d.php?t=219077
Yes, Good Hands are better, by FAR. Sure, you won't die a lot. The thing is that when it happens, you will need these few seconds. If you're fed and your enemies are not focusing you, we're not playing the same game.
Expanded Mind? Srsly? hmm, how much mana do you have with all these items? 2k at max... man that's additional.. 80 mana! so great... you won't even cast Q with it oO Awareness is a great mastery, good also in 2v2 lane. You should be especially using it, as it fits nicely to your Catalyst. Anyone who did the math that it's worth only in jungle/alone is an idiot.
Exhaust is 210s cooldown. Ignite is around 2min, I'm not sure exactly. You're getting 30s less on Exhaust and 20s on Ignite. That's huge.
Also, you want to use your Ignite as a finisher, not as a harassment. I always laugh from these idiots who harass with Ignite and then I kill them with almost no HP left.
Doran's Shield provides MUCH better laining. 10AP ain't much. Shield gives armor (and a lot of early game damage is dealt with auto attacks) and nice HP regen.
There is a better core build and that is: Meija's Soulstealer + Sorc Shoes + Haunting Guise. The cost of these 3 is less than 4k gold and it gives a lot of damage (40 MPen + lots of AP from Meija if you know how to play Kass) + some little survivability. Add Zhonya and you're done with AP, you don't need more. Focus on survivability if game drags long enough.

I am sorry to say this, but at the ELO I play Soraka that is trying to do lane-control without good AD DPS on her back is shut down. Do you really think that she can survive with her silly 100-200hp heal? Casters are not a threat enough against 2 people. Kassadin doesn't need to farm. He needs kills. I do not die early (Doran's Shield > Doran's Ring), I have no mana problems (mp5/lvl seals & glyphs + clarity), her spamming is nice but there are much better champs - like Kat, Morde, Shen, Akali that you've mentioned or any other of these non-mana/energy/low-mana-usage champs... Don't forget you're also getting stacks when enemies use their skills.
Her heals are not enough for you to be auto attacking, she works MUCH better with any AD DPS Carry. She's a babysitter, Kassadin doesn't need one.

@GlideStrife, Lich Bane is great, synergises well with new W, but I am hardly ever getting it. I rather need survivabilityin these long games, but when I don't, I'll grab LB for sure. I've had 2 60min games yesterday (didn't happen to me for a **** long time) and I was about to change my HG to LB twice, but the games were over, before I made it.
It's great against tanks, much better than DFG.


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kijik

Senior Member

08-26-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by peyo View Post
here's the topic I made few days ago on why Perseverance is pathetic.
http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...d.php?t=219077
Yes, Good Hands are better, by FAR. Sure, you won't die a lot. The thing is that when it happens, you will need these few seconds. If you're fed and your enemies are not focusing you, we're not playing the same game.
Expanded Mind? Srsly? hmm, how much mana do you have with all these items? 2k at max... man that's additional.. 80 mana! so great... you won't even cast Q with it oO Awareness is a great mastery, good also in 2v2 lane. You should be especially using it, as it fits nicely to your Catalyst. Anyone who did the math that it's worth only in jungle/alone is an idiot.
Exhaust is 210s cooldown. Ignite is around 2min, I'm not sure exactly. You're getting 30s less on Exhaust and 20s on Ignite. That's huge.
Also, you want to use your Ignite as a finisher, not as a harassment. I always laugh from these idiots who harass with Ignite and then I kill them with almost no HP left.
Doran's Shield provides MUCH better laining. 10AP ain't much. Shield gives armor (and a lot of early game damage is dealt with auto attacks) and nice HP regen.
There is a better core build and that is: Meija's Soulstealer + Sorc Shoes + Haunting Guise. The cost of these 3 is less than 4k gold and it gives a lot of damage (40 MPen + lots of AP from Meija if you know how to play Kass) + some little survivability. Add Zhonya and you're done with AP, you don't need more. Focus on survivability if game drags long enough.

I am sorry to say this, but at the ELO I play Soraka that is trying to do lane-control without good AD DPS on her back is shut down. Do you really think that she can survive with her silly 100-200hp heal? Casters are not a threat enough against 2 people. Kassadin doesn't need to farm. He needs kills. I do not die early (Doran's Shield > Doran's Ring), I have no mana problems (mp5/lvl seals & glyphs + clarity), her spamming is nice but there are much better champs - like Kat, Morde, Shen, Akali that you've mentioned or any other of these non-mana/energy/low-mana-usage champs... Her heals are not enough for you to be auto attacking, she works MUCH better with any AD DPS.
hmm, I concede, you've made solid points and I'll have to give them a run, well played good sir, but the rest of my guide still stands, I'll make sure to make adjustments in these areas when I do.


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peyo

Senior Member

08-26-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by kijik View Post
hmm, I concede, you've made solid points and I'll have to give them a run, well played good sir, but the rest of my guide still stands, I'll make sure to make adjustments in these areas when I do.
thank you
I honestly have to try Frozen Heart, but I hardly ever have a games where enemies are AD DPS heavy.

Atleast, you're not another guy who's rushing Tear -> Archangel's


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GlideStrife

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08-26-2010

I have to ask, why so much hate for Tear? I've found it to be invaluable, even more so when solo queuing, simply because getting Golem isn't a 100% thing in that case. Far too many time's i've already got two people on my team fighting over who needs Golem more, and i'm able to assume the enemy team is the same, because theirs is never up.

What's wrong with being able to let your riftwalk stack to 3 before even engaging the team battle, without fear of mana decay?

I used to start with Doran's Shield practically every single game, and i'll agree, it makes the laning phase significantly easier, but if you can lane effectively while rushing a quick tear, where's the problem?

Truth be told, after seeing so much hate for Tear, i'm going to try a bunch of games without it and compare it to my games with it, but ever since i've switched to it from my old build, which was practically Peyo's build to a tee, i've had a much easier time during the later/pushing phases.


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Covenant

Senior Member

08-26-2010

Tear used to be good in Beta so it made it's way into lots of builds. Now Kass doesn't rely as much on stacking Riftwalks, isn't quite as sturdy in melee (some of the new cast is to blame for that) so you don't need much more than 500 mana or so to unleash a hellish barrage of nukes and gtfo.

I would like to hear how kijik's friend built his Physical Kass though.

Clarity removes a lot of the need for tear early on, and later on a heavy AP build means you've nearly always got enough mana to kill someone, because your killing power from mana expended doubles. It's disappointing to see riftwalk slide away to being just a flashy Decieve, but it's true, you don't need tons of mana.

Burning 400 mana just to drop a 360 point nuke on someone is wasteful. The Magic Penetration and AP items provide more oomph.

I don't like starting with the shield. I played all of Beta, took a break, and am now climbing back up in levels, so I'm essentially smurfed and find it easy to keep guys stuck back in their tower with Q harassment. Since they can't safely poke out I prefer the Ring or Blade to start with, both increase my farming ability. It's quite possible better players would be able to push me so far back I can't afford to run ring or blade, but it hasn't happened yet.


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GlideStrife

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08-26-2010

Just tried going my old build without tear and playing the Golem buff (have a friend helping me pick it up). Significantly better.

How do you get the Golem buff? I find it would be difficult to get at the level I need it without team assistance.


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DOGKaiser

Junior Member

09-09-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Covenant View Post

I would like to hear how kijik's friend built his Physical Kass though.
I'll be his friend if he wants to be .

It's nice to see you back and playing kijik although I admit I have switched to AP a while back. The new heroes,the huge nerf on triforce, and all the minor AP buffs. I mean seriously what kassadin thinks he's going to go up to a garen, start wailing on him in melee and actually win?

Oh wait Kass got was some stupid W armor pen buff, that'll show that garen....actually i think i'll just use it for a charge on force pulse.

Oh, I also solo queued more than anything kijik. I just got lucky with my teammates I guess.


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