Darius is easier to counter than you think

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Biofighter

Senior Member

06-05-2012

Since Darius came out, the champion feedback section of the forums has been full of "nerf Darius plzz, DARIUS OPPP NERF NAO RIOT" and the likes of that, the thing is, he's
Like every other champion, you just need to know how to counter him.

1. Summoner spells
People seem to forget about these all the time, let's have a quick look at tryndamere (or ad ranged carries, what is the number 1 summoner spell for them? EXHAUST. Just place it on him and either run away or try kill him, exhaust seems underused in the current meta, it is still an amazing summoner spell which will help you bury Darius into the ground.

Heal - I for one am not a fan of heal but it is effective whether it's heal baiting or surviving his ultimate, it works, just watch out ignites


2. Items
This section is quick to cover, items include randiuns omen ( armour and slow), thornmail (basic attacks, Decimate and crippling strike), guardian angel ( gg ultimate refresh) ninja tabi ( reduce damage by 10%)

Champions - this section will take the longest to complete


Who not to pick:
Vladimir - once he hits level 3 he's just going to pull you in, decimate, basic attack and crippling strike, your pool won't stop him for pulling you in either.

Riven - this match up I haven't personally tried but I think Darius will just win the trades overall with the passive dot (granted its very weak but does count to something) if you think this is incorrect please comment


Who you can pick:
Dr Mundo - cleaver cleaver cleaver cleaver cleaver cleaver cleaver cleaver, oh and if he pulls you in just activate your aoe and either fight or run.

Kennen - q poke non stop, you will have to play safe with this however because he can put big damage output onto you, if he dives just get a stun off onto him and let turrent do it's job.

Olaf - this lane is just win. You can easily trade with him,Q for the huge damage, E true damage bully, W with your passive means its gonna take a lot to kill you, ultimate to deny him stacking his passive onto you :3 win win

Lee sin - easy combo here, Q Q E E W, If he manages to grab you just kick him in the face and dash away, just poke at his health and sustain with W

Irelia - it's Irelia do I really need to say anything?

Teemo (credit: rodfranco) blind + poison all day er day

Ashe - frost shot kite, don't let him get any stacks on you so he has no speed buff and there you go easy win

Jax - he seems to win any lane

More hero counters: (credit xcodes)

Morgana. Q and R both effectively remove Darius from the fight, and E immunizes an ally against his pull. It's almost like every one of her spells is there to just give Darius the finger.

Lux. Similar to Morgana, Q and E both shut down Darius and Lux has a longer attack range, meaning less threat from Darius's E.

Cassiopeia. Extreme range and speed advantages, and if Darius ever htis you with his E, hit him back with R. He's almost guaranteed to melt under your DPS, then.


Beating Darius is easier than you think


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XCodes

Senior Member

06-05-2012

More hero counters:

Morgana. Q and R both effectively remove Darius from the fight, and E immunizes an ally against his pull. It's almost like every one of her spells is there to just give Darius the finger.

Lux. Similar to Morgana, Q and E both shut down Darius and Lux has a longer attack range, meaning less threat from Darius's E.

Cassiopeia. Extreme range and speed advantages, and if Darius ever htis you with his E, hit him back with R. He's almost guaranteed to melt under your DPS, then.


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Shatterlight

Senior Member

06-05-2012

Certainly he is counterable - everyone is. Doesn't mean he isn't slightly out of line in strength, due to high base stats, a kit with good synergy, and high base numbers on his abilities. Also, a Feast-like true damage nuke that refreshes on kills.

On the topic, Armor doesn't counter him as heavily as most ADs, since he not only does physical damage, but also magic (passive) and true damage. That is ignoring his built-in 25% Armor Penetration. Health is necessary to counter all three types. Randuin's as you mentioned is a good choice, though, because it gives armor, health, and stops him from stacking his passive so quickly.


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Etherimp

Senior Member

06-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khimaera View Post
Certainly he is counterable - everyone is. Doesn't mean he isn't slightly out of line in strength, due to high base stats, a kit with good synergy, and high base numbers on his abilities. Also, a Feast-like true damage nuke that refreshes on kills.

On the topic, Armor doesn't counter him as heavily as most ADs, since he not only does physical damage, but also magic (passive) and true damage. That is ignoring his built-in 25% Armor Penetration. Health is necessary to counter all three types. Randuin's as you mentioned is a good choice, though, because it gives armor, health, and stops him from stacking his passive so quickly.
Except... HE DOESN'T HAVE HIGH BASE STATS.

His base stats are worse than Garens... and Garen is perfectly counterable.

The only thing which IS high, is the base damage on his Q... But it's no higher than the Base damage on Garens Q, it's just longer range.

Please, before you start making statements about a characters stats, at least do yourself the favor of looking them up and making comparison to other champions of a similar role.


What Darius HAS - Good AOE close range damage, A DoT, and small gap closer on long cooldown, a slow, an AA refresh ability (w), and an Ultimate which deals true damage.


What Darius DOES NOT have - A shield, A steroid of any kind, an escape of any kind, any kind of hard SS, ANY built-in sustain, what-so-ever.

How do you counter a champion like this?

BRAWLING with Darius is NOT what you want to do.. I've tried it, trust me it's a bad idea.

What you want to do, is pick a champion who can win exchanges either through CC or damage, and who has an escape, who has natural sustain... OR you want to constantly gank him. Darius CANNOT escape from ganks without using flash/ghost.

Good picks?

Teemo, Riven, Cho'gath, probably Pantheon, possibly Mordekaiser.. among others.


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Insípid

Senior Member

06-06-2012

Honestly. Most darius' rely on their bleed dmg. Thats easy. Bleed deals magic dmg. Build a maw of malmortius and lots of HP. Ive seen darius build 1 or 2 ad items. Therefore the dmg output isnt to great.


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Shatterlight

Senior Member

06-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etherimp View Post
Except... HE DOESN'T HAVE HIGH BASE STATS.

His base stats are worse than Garens... and Garen is perfectly counterable.

The only thing which IS high, is the base damage on his Q... But it's no higher than the Base damage on Garens Q, it's just longer range.

Please, before you start making statements about a characters stats, at least do yourself the favor of looking them up and making comparison to other champions of a similar role.

He has the fourth highest armor in the game at level 1, with average scaling. His health is average (only 29 less than Garen) and scales very highly (only 3 less than Garen). His MR is 30 like everyone else, and he has scaling on it. His movespeed is average. His damage is normal for a physical bruiser, and has the eleventh highest scaling in the game. (Higher among bruisers, since Amumu, Alistar, Rammus, and Morgana have some of the highest scaling for some reason.) Garen has slightly higher HP/5 with less scaling. Darius is higher or equal to Garen everywhere but health.

For abilities, Garens legendary E (which, notably, requires 3 seconds of CHANNELING, whereas Darius' equivalent Q is a one swing deal) does 150 damage at level 1, and 630 damage at 5. The total scaling is 4.2 per AD. This seems high, but remind yourself Garen is not doing anything else but channeling this. Garen's Q is 30 damage at 1, and 90 at 5 with 1.4 scaling per AD. The cooldown is 12 seconds at 1, and 8 at 5.

Darius' Q, equivalent to Garen's E, does 105 at 1 and 315 at 5, with 1.05 damage per AD. Again, remember that this takes a sixth of the time to deal it's damage, and add in 2.5 seconds of autoattacks. I'm pretty sure the damage evens out at the LEAST. Darius' W (equivalent to Garen's Q) does +20% of your AD at 1, and +100% at 5. This looks worse than Garen's. But then, look at the cooldown - it STARTS at 8 seconds, and at any point in the game, even level 1, can be down to 3 seconds. You equal his level 5 cooldown with 0 stacks, and are only a third of it at full stacks, making it FAR outscale Garen's in any engagement over 4 seconds.

I didn't even bother to compare ultimates, since that should be obvious. I also ignored their passives, Garen's W, and Darius' E because these are all fun, different, and hard to quantify in comparison to eachother. I believe those things are all equal between them, which would get me some flak from Darius haters I'm sure.

Next time you ask someone to bring the numbers, ensure that those numbers don't completely render your own argument obsolete. I didn't mean to derail this thread, since it IS a thread on counter-strategies, but denying his strengths altogether does NOT help you counter him! You need to accept he is stronger than other champions in order to fight him properly. Knowledge, not wishful ignorance.

EDIT: I uprated you regardless of your faulty beliefs, because you provided your ideas on the matchup and contributed to the discussion after your little bait


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Wonder Wafflez

Member

06-06-2012

^ pwned


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Wolfalisk

Member

06-06-2012

0/10


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PerfidiousAlbion

Senior Member

06-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khimaera View Post
He has the fourth highest armor in the game at level 1, with average scaling. His health is average (only 29 less than Garen) and scales very highly (only 3 less than Garen). His MR is 30 like everyone else, and he has scaling on it. His movespeed is average. His damage is normal for a physical bruiser, and has the eleventh highest scaling in the game. (Higher among bruisers, since Amumu, Alistar, Rammus, and Morgana have some of the highest scaling for some reason.) Garen has slightly higher HP/5 with less scaling. Darius is higher or equal to Garen everywhere but health.
Darius has 519hp at lvl1, there are champs that have as much as 576(gangplank). Darius doesn't have high base health by a long stretch. Darius does have high base armor, among the highest in the game. Darius has .679(+2.6%) AS, this isn't anything special by a long shot when high AS is something like .69(+3.38%) on Teemo. His MR is standard for tanky DPS. Darius has 53.5AD at lvl1, champs have as much as 62AD at lvl1 (Taric), Darius actually has quite low base AD for a tanky DPS. Darius has 315MS, which is again quite low for tanky DPS which normally have 320-325. His base HP/5 is also on the high side. His mana and mana regen are both also quite low.

I fail to see how excelling at one category and being solid in two others while being subpar in 6 equals high base stats. Aside from his armor his base stats are all equal to or lower than I would expect for a champ with his kit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khimaera View Post
For abilities, Garens legendary E (which, notably, requires 3 seconds of CHANNELING, whereas Darius' equivalent Q is a one swing deal) does 150 damage at level 1, and 630 damage at 5. The total scaling is 4.2 per AD. This seems high, but remind yourself Garen is not doing anything else but channeling this. Garen's Q is 30 damage at 1, and 90 at 5 with 1.4 scaling per AD. The cooldown is 12 seconds at 1, and 8 at 5.
In both cases they can't afford to build high bonus AD values so the base damages are extremely important. Likewise you neglected Garen's E scaling off of crit , it removing and reducing slows and the fact that Darius's Q's damage is conditional. Garen's doing full damage to everything in his E, Darius isn't. Garen's E is FAR superior to Darius's Q.

If we compare Garen's Q to Darius's W in lane then Garen's wins easily. Garen's adds a flat 30 bonus damage, has a 1.4AD ratio. Darius adds no bonus damage and has a 1.2AD ratio. Garen's adds a 15% MS buff for 4sec and a 2.5sec silence. Darius has a 20% MS/AS debuff for 2sec. Garen's is greatly superior until they get leveled, and neither is being leveled early game. Yes Garen's Q has the longer CD, but that doesn't matter as much in lane where people go for small skirmishes instead of drawn out battles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khimaera View Post
Darius' Q, equivalent to Garen's E, does 105 at 1 and 315 at 5, with 1.05 damage per AD. Again, remember that this takes a sixth of the time to deal it's damage, and add in 2.5 seconds of autoattacks. I'm pretty sure the damage evens out at the LEAST. Darius' W (equivalent to Garen's Q) does +20% of your AD at 1, and +100% at 5. This looks worse than Garen's. But then, look at the cooldown - it STARTS at 8 seconds, and at any point in the game, even level 1, can be down to 3 seconds. You equal his level 5 cooldown with 0 stacks, and are only a third of it at full stacks, making it FAR outscale Garen's in any engagement over 4 seconds.
Why are we assuming people are just standing around while Darius AA's them? This is rarely beneficial and early game Darius isn't very good at sticking to his target. Garen is hard to avoid while he's spinning because of his superior MS, MS buff and partial immunity to slows. Yeah, if we're assuming Garen spins right up to Darius and sits there in AA range then they're even. In a real example where Garen is moving around Garen comes out ahead. In the event that they do come out to be even Garen still wins due to his innate sustain and his W providing greater durability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khimaera View Post
I didn't even bother to compare ultimates, since that should be obvious. I also ignored their passives, Garen's W, and Darius' E because these are all fun, different, and hard to quantify in comparison to eachother. I believe those things are all equal between them, which would get me some flak from Darius haters I'm sure.
Darius's E and R are better tools than Garen has, though that is in large part because Garen's ult sucks. A heavy magic damage nuke on a champ who can't afford to itemize or rune for any magic penetration was a decidedly poor idea. Regardless, early game Garen is superior because he has more beef, equal or greater damage, sustain and is much better at avoiding/escaping ganks.


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Edzter

Senior Member

06-06-2012

the thing about heal,
even if you do survive his ultimate and force it to go on cooldown, it still can hit into the 500s~, thats insane!


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