Who is the absolute strongest champion? (Lore wise)

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Seth Lightheart

Senior Member

06-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catnium View Post
why isnt hecarim on this list ?
I agree with this as they basically said he was unstoppable. However I think he is also a big unknown and isn't very measurable.

But personally? I'd like to see him in a fight with Yorick. Or with Gatekeeper Gallio.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Astraltar

Senior Member

06-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth Lightheart View Post
And lastly…. Someone no one talked about. Caitlyn. If we are talking about if 1 champion wanted to kill all the others my money would be on her. I know this might throw you guys for a loop but an anti-material round would rip though a dog skull real nice.
First, if you want to talk about gun-wielding champions, then Graves and Miss Fortune might also come in.

Second, I highly doubt Xerath would be fazed by bullets. Or Cho'Gath, for that matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by herdsheep View Post
Don't have time to go through and quote each individual spot, but to address a few general things:

Why is Nasus stronger than Renekton? In their lore Nasus defeated Renekton and was about to deliver the killing blow when Nasus was summoned to Runeterra. While not definite proof, it does mean that Nasus was able to get the upper hand easily before, and Renekton expected Nasus to kill him when they fought again. I believe this shows up in Renekton's judgement.

Heimerdinger and Ziggs are not really considered for the same reason as Swain. While they may have power in plans/influence, they are not individually strong. If you want to count who could win a world ward in Runeterra, it is likely Swain, as he currently rules Noxus, while no other ruler appears in the champion list.

Why Xerath/Brand/Nocturne/Cho'gath are below Fiddlesticks? The summoners contained and imprisoned all the prior, but have been unable to do anything about Fiddlesticks besides abandon a wing of their headquarters to not bother him. Fiddlesticks is otherwise unimpressive, but the fact that the summoners cannot displace him makes him defacto stronger than the ones they can imprison easily, like Brand.

People are too quick to discount champions without magical prowess. Just as on the fields of justice, magic does not always prevail over might. While champions such as Jarvin, Garen, Darius, etc are probably not the strongest, their might alone allows them to compete with foreign mages regularly. The abilty to smash ones spear into the ground hard enough to cause a cataclysm is a reminder that they should not be treated as "normal" humans.

On the subject of Jax, once again, it is probable that he is the former Grand Master of League, and either way, is absurdly powerful on and off the fields of justice. Unquestionable the strongest man in world where men can fight monsters and gods, I'm not going to take him out of the top ten without a more evidence to the contrary.

For the sake of the argument, top ten is something like (in no particular order):

Nasus
Jax
Anivia
Fiddlesticks
Cho'gath
Pulsefire Ezreal
Xerath
Ryze

Explanations:
Pulsefire Ezreal is mostly a joke, but if you think about, the Pulsefire armor is clearly a grade above, and likely from the future. For balance reasons its not any different in game, but as a lore exercise, probably is considerable stronger than Ezreal, who was a prodigal mage to start with.

Ryze does not need the scroll to be the single most powerful living mage.

Xerath is a bit of an unknown, but appears pretty strong.

Jax should not be discounted. Period. It is unknown exactly how badass a dude he is, but he's a bad ass dude no matter how you cut it, and as noted, probably and is Ashram the original Grand Master of League and probably one of the most powerful people in Runeterra.

Fiddlesticks for previously mentioned reasons.

Nasus and Anivia as they are gods, and Anivia is at least immortal, as well as an elemental aspect. Nasus has vast knowledge of the universe and vast power.

Cho'gath is the strongest void entity currently on Runeterra, and no laughing matter.
I debate the placement of some of those people:

-Nocturne needs to be on that list. The summoners were able to restrain him because he somehow got summoned into the physical world - something which I'm fairly certain was not caused by the summoners - intentionally, at least. And besides, in these confrontations, there are no League restrictions.

-Pulsefire Ezreal was a non-canon skin, but if he was canon, he might get to the list.

-And I don't think Xerath was actually imprisoned by the summoners at all. He just wanted their help to free him of his chains.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Astraltar

Senior Member

06-15-2012

Also, I took a look at Xerath's lore, and I think he's more powerful than even I gave him credit for.

-He's immortal. Direct quotes from his lore:
"Desperate, he undertook a dangerous ritual to transcend his dying body. The outcome would be immortality or self-destruction."
"After a terrible struggle they subdued Xerath, but they could not destroy his ascended form." They were so powerful they could subdue Xerath - although admittedly he might have been unaccustomed to his power - and they still couldn't kill him.
-They also couldn't keep him imprisoned forever. I doubt anyone could.
-And he regards the summoners as "petty": this probably puts him on par with Nasus. It also might put Anivia and Nocturne out of the running:
-Anivia is immortal, but slightly lacking in offensive power. Xerath is immortal and is most certainly not lacking in offensive power.
-Xerath doesn't sleep, so Nocturne will at least find it more difficult to get into his mind, if not impossible. And it's even more certain if Nocturne is in the physical world: Xerath doesn't care how sharp your blades are.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IS1a420802574b139f7409f

Senior Member

06-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astraltar View Post
I debate the placement of some of those people:

-Nocturne needs to be on that list. The summoners were able to restrain him because he somehow got summoned into the physical world - something which I'm fairly certain was not caused by the summoners - intentionally, at least. And besides, in these confrontations, there are no League restrictions.

-Pulsefire Ezreal was a non-canon skin, but if he was canon, he might get to the list.

-And I don't think Xerath was actually imprisoned by the summoners at all. He just wanted their help to free him of his chains.
Keep in mind that I'm measuring champions by their current power, not their strongest. Xerath if he managed to overcome his prison might be stronger. Annie will be stronger when she's grown up. Nocturne is stronger when in the world of dreams; unless Nocturne escaped back to the world of dreams (which I'm not clear how would happen) nothing indicates he is particularly powerful in the physical realm.

We have no idea if Pulsefire Ezreal is canon or not (to my knowledge), but as I said, it was mostly a joke. Time travel does sort of exist considering Zilean, but I'm guessing it is indeed just a non-canon spoof.

As for Heimer and Ziggs, unless the league is not letting them bring their cool inventions to the League, their technology for war is just not good enough to compete. Nothing mentioned in the Journal has surpassed the high level champions abilities, so anything they could do beyond the relatively tame stuff we see on the Fields of Justice isn't speculation. Ziggs has big bombs. Some mages can get similar results by snapping their fingers. Its just not a comparison unless lore hints are bigger tech.

Xerath makes my list, but barely and that's mostly because no one really knows what his current power is in the partially imprisoned state he's in.

Additionally, note that my list I put "in no particular order". Those are simply the top ten in my view, not in that order.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Seth Lightheart

Senior Member

06-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astraltar View Post
First, if you want to talk about gun-wielding champions, then Graves and Miss Fortune might also come in.

Second, I highly doubt Xerath would be fazed by bullets. Or Cho'Gath, for that matter.
You know.... your 100% right about Xerath. However I still think Cho might feel a round or two to the dome.

As for MF and Graves, your right too. But I still think a sniper rifle would do more damage and of a lot more use in a said battle.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Seth Lightheart

Senior Member

06-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by herdsheep View Post

As for Heimer and Ziggs, unless the league is not letting them bring their cool inventions to the League, their technology for war is just not good enough to compete. Nothing mentioned in the Journal has surpassed the high level champions abilities, so anything they could do beyond the relatively tame stuff we see on the Fields of Justice isn't speculation. Ziggs has big bombs. Some mages can get similar results by snapping their fingers. Its just not a comparison unless lore hints are bigger tech.
Honestly? When I think about this fight I think of comics that have talked about it such as Wanted, Fables or a few DC comics.

True the X dude can blow up people with a thought however that wont help him from a sniper rifle round from half a mile away or getting blown up by a hexnuke or whatnot.


And also..... I just wanted to get you guys thinking

Throwing in Nasus and saying he is the most powerful because they called him a God is just old.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IS1a420802574b139f7409f

Senior Member

06-15-2012

The whole thing is fuzzy. Personally I'm not aware that it is ever said that Champions are limited on the fields of a Justice. That is only inferred from the gameplay going from level 1-18 rather than any actual Lore explanation.

Purely based off Lore (as it never says champions are limited in their power on the fields of Justice), Jax is clearly stated to be the strongest.

However, most people reject this as they believe that the more god-like champions are rebalanced on the fields of justice, and evidence that the start at level 1 and grow stronger every time they play (a gameplay based assumption).

My main evidence for structuring champions is two fold - how strong they are stated to be in their lore, and how much trouble summoners had wrangling them (when they needed to be imprisoned).

Clearly bullets effect Xerath as Caitlyn can shoot him to death in game. But is that because of special unstated league rules, or because bullets ****ing hurt?

So it all heavily depends on how much you draw from gameplay vs lore vs real world logic.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

EpicLotus

Senior Member

06-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by herdsheep View Post
The whole thing is fuzzy. Personally I'm not aware that it is ever said that Champions are limited on the fields of a Justice. That is only inferred from the gameplay going from level 1-18 rather than any actual Lore explanation.

Purely based off Lore (as it never says champions are limited in their power on the fields of Justice), Jax is clearly stated to be the strongest.

However, most people reject this as they believe that the more god-like champions are rebalanced on the fields of justice, and evidence that the start at level 1 and grow stronger every time they play (a gameplay based assumption).

My main evidence for structuring champions is two fold - how strong they are stated to be in their lore, and how much trouble summoners had wrangling them (when they needed to be imprisoned).

Clearly bullets effect Xerath as Caitlyn can shoot him to death in game. But is that because of special unstated league rules, or because bullets ****ing hurt?

So it all heavily depends on how much you draw from gameplay vs lore vs real world logic.
We know a champion "power" is diminished in the fields.

But one thing this guys raises, and probably is right, we canīt assume only "magical" powers are balanced and physical powers are not.

Maybe master yi can cut any champion in half in one slice outside of the league, as the LoL make him weaker and slower in matches...

For example, how can we know if graves shotgun isnīt powerfull enough to 1 hit someone outside of the fields(like it is the case in the real world), and it is "nerfed" in the matches? We canīt.

Maybe Mordekaiser is trully resilient, and his armor makes it look that way, but maybe just a single shot of Kaitlyn can kill him...(like it would on earth)

Weīre making assumptions on champion limitations that we canīt know.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Astraltar

Senior Member

06-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by herdsheep View Post
Keep in mind that I'm measuring champions by their current power, not their strongest. Xerath if he managed to overcome his prison might be stronger. Annie will be stronger when she's grown up. Nocturne is stronger when in the world of dreams; unless Nocturne escaped back to the world of dreams (which I'm not clear how would happen) nothing indicates he is particularly powerful in the physical realm.

We have no idea if Pulsefire Ezreal is canon or not (to my knowledge), but as I said, it was mostly a joke. Time travel does sort of exist considering Zilean, but I'm guessing it is indeed just a non-canon spoof.

As for Heimer and Ziggs, unless the league is not letting them bring their cool inventions to the League, their technology for war is just not good enough to compete. Nothing mentioned in the Journal has surpassed the high level champions abilities, so anything they could do beyond the relatively tame stuff we see on the Fields of Justice isn't speculation. Ziggs has big bombs. Some mages can get similar results by snapping their fingers. Its just not a comparison unless lore hints are bigger tech.

Xerath makes my list, but barely and that's mostly because no one really knows what his current power is in the partially imprisoned state he's in.

Additionally, note that my list I put "in no particular order". Those are simply the top ten in my view, not in that order.
(...there were only 8 champions in that list...)
Anyway.
You are correct about Nocturne, and technically he should be taken off the list. Adding that to my post on page 1. Thanks
I'm pretty sure Xerath should be on the list; he managed to break free of the sarcophagus, and even with his chains still on he's an extremely powerful mage.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Astraltar

Senior Member

06-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicLotus View Post
We know a champion "power" is diminished in the fields.

But one thing this guys raises, and probably is right, we canīt assume only "magical" powers are balanced and physical powers are not.

Maybe master yi can cut any champion in half in one slice outside of the league, as the LoL make him weaker and slower in matches...

For example, how can we know if graves shotgun isnīt powerfull enough to 1 hit someone outside of the fields(like it is the case in the real world), and it is "nerfed" in the matches? We canīt.

Maybe Mordekaiser is trully resilient, and his armor makes it look that way, but maybe just a single shot of Kaitlyn can kill him...(like it would on earth)

Weīre making assumptions on champion limitations that we canīt know.
Hmm.
Master Yi was probably that powerful in the old lore, but I think it got retconned to make him just a very skilled swordsman.
Although you have a point on Mordekaiser, I still believe Xerath wouldn't be fazed by bullets. Unless maybe the bullets "disrupt his magical energy" or something, Xerath is still in fact immortal. And if they hit the chain fragments, either they ricochet off harmlessly, or they somehow break it, which could actually increase his power.