Some simple Volibear playability thingies

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GREETINGS

Junior Member

12-25-2012

Something I don't get, is the fact that you are all writing like there HAS to be something changed to Volibear.
It is a possibility. Most of the people in this thread are either low level or low elo. If low level and low elo players come up with solutions for champions, it means that higher rated players will also have to deal with that.


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Typhingblade

Senior Member

12-25-2012

In all honesty, Volibear plays better in season 3 mastery wise, but his season 2 item build was way better.
I'm talking S2 Attack Speed Black cleaver, FoN, Warmogs, Merc treads,Frozen Mallet, Randuins.
But S3 Removed FoN and Black Cleavers utility to volibear.
Now it's Spirit Visage, Randuins, Warmogs, Frozen Mallet, Boots of Swiftness, Zephyr.
Zephyr is pretty ****, but it's the only item i've found that can fill the attack speed, damage, and movement speed void he's aquired.


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Knight of Dusk

Senior Member

12-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GREETINGS View Post
Something I don't get, is the fact that you are all writing like there HAS to be something changed to Volibear.
It is a possibility. Most of the people in this thread are either low level or low elo. If low level and low elo players come up with solutions for champions, it means that higher rated players will also have to deal with that.
You're right. BUT, this is unfolding exactly like it should. I'll explain. I can't say for sure if this is how Riot designers do it or not, but it seems reasonable based on what I've seen.

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Everyone here, myself included, who have given suggestions or expressed opinions that needs him changed in some manner, do it for a reason. A thread with closing in on 1000 upvotes and 1500+ replies doesn't magically leap into existence. And that tells us one thing.

If some people feel like Voli needs to change, then there is something that's not working somewhere.

1) The correct way to play and build Volibear isn't being communicated well enough so people are trying to do things Voli can't or shouldn't be doing. Thus they are having a hard time by doing that.
2) OR, people are playing him correctly, and he really is missing something.

Either way, there is a flaw somewhere, which should be addressed, because improving upon their product is in Riot's best interest.

But how do you find the problem? Do you just tweak numbers and throw effects around until something sticks? Of course not, that would take forever and a day. Waste of money and not very fun. (Well... it can be.)

There are multiple shortcuts that can be taken and methods to apply. Listening to players who are experiencing problems is a good one to start with.

See, by having people post their ideas and thoughts, Volty can start to see the root of the problem by analyzing their background. What role do they play? How do they use Volibear's kit? Which problems are they encountering? How do they want him to evolve? Why? What is the most common cause or causes? Thus it is VERY IMPORTANT that people share ALL that they can where Reds can see it, such as on the forums, and preferably in one big and easy to find place, like this thread.

Once Volty and live design have identified the issue, or issues, they can start looking for solutions.

Independently of the ideas and suggestions posted in this thread. Because they are likely looking at a very different problem than any single person here has identified, AND they are concerned with how all players of all different tiers of play will approach any hypothetical solutions. This is a competitive game and has a large casual following. They need to please both the crowds. Leaving one out of the equation can severely hurt both the dynamics of the game and their business.

The vast majority of forum posters are at the root looking out for their own way of play, not that of others. This is well understood by Reds. Thus their offers of solutions get IGNORED at first. You never have to worry about a large group of people who are good at shouting on the forums getting a game object nerfed or buffed without good reason because it is well understood that doing so can produce very bad results for everyone involved, player and developer.

Riot also do unpopular decisions all the time, but they are always very well justified. Like the removal of Force of Nature and Ionic Spark for example. I loathe the removal of them, but I know that it is good for the health of the game for them to go away. Partly because when need arises, the Reds are VERY good at responding with in-depth reasoning of why they did what they did.

What I'm getting at here is that they simply do not play favourites or cave to public demand.

Now some ideas presented by the community might serve as an inspiration of course, but that's only if it fits the very specific needs for the solution they already have in mind. A dozen people being very persistent on getting a large laser cannon mounted to Teemo's hat will not make it happen unless the Red Crew already thought Teemo needed heavier sci-fi inspired weaponry in his arsenal.

Thus they go with the already suggested change because they know that is already familiar and popular among their players. But most importantly, they already know it works!

TO SUMMARIZE:


People are making suggestions for changes to help Riot take the best course of action they can whether that's what the players in question are really trying to achieve or not. Calls to make Volibear OP are falling on deaf ears. Riot is a pretty cool guy, eh does design work all day and doesnt afraids of anything.

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I hope this removes any worry about some small but loud group of players who really don't know what they are talking about suddenly getting Volibear ruined for those who can play him very well in his current condition.


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Iklo

Senior Member

12-25-2012

Well said Knight.


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corals

Senior Member

12-25-2012

he is all ready most of the way to being a tank along the lines of singed and ammumu, why not just take him the rest of the way there?

I would agree to more power being taken out of his w, this would make him less binary. If I start to get kills and get the gold to stack health I just walk right up to the other top and kill them. Taking power away would help with this. Put the power into his e, lower the cool down or something so that he can slow a lot more in team fights. You may have to tone down his damage on his ult or some thing to make this happen. Maybe lower the base on his w, then lower the cd on his q by one second and his e by two seconds? That would give him a lot of sticking power and disruption in team fights.

I am not sure what you mean by cleaning up his scaling though, aside from more health ratios, which seems dangerous. Maybe cut the base of his ult but change the scaling to health? His normal build will bring it back to a similar base and more health crazy builds will increase it.

Also when will you fix the bug on his w that stops it from calculating percent health runes? Or is that working as intended? I just want to know has any one else found that bug?


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JimMaru

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Senior Member

12-25-2012

I agree with corals. His binary effect come from his W.
If he gets ahead he builds HEALTH, currently the most efficient defensive stat, and gets a ton of damage out of it.
That's why I think he should be HP/AP scaled like Ryze is AP/Mana scaled. Remove part of the AS on W and part of the %Health on the active, but giving him an on-hit with an AP ratio or something like this can help make him more consistent...

The problem is, his other skills are terrible because his W is great, but focusing on his W means he will be incredibly HARD to kill but while also having a lot of damage because he will be getting more AS by leveling his W for the execute and it synergies with his Ultimate.
Building Defense into Offense is one of the reasons Atma's was nerfed in the first place... And probably why his W had it's ratio reduced by 50%...
His W needs some nerfing while increasing power somewhere else. Even if increasing power on his W again, in another form. I don't think anybody else has an 15% bonus health ratio on the game, that's why it feels broken if Voli gets ahead.

I still want to try AP building Volibear now at S3. Proc'ing Liandry on the entire enemy team with my ult seems... Enticing... Haha. And Rylai works with his Ult too... Then get all tank items... With that much health.... RoA and Abyss... Seems like that can hurt.
Unfortunately I'm traveling, I can't play the game without a mouse on the notebook....


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Hidden Sniper

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Senior Member

12-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volty View Post
- Ensure jungle viability..
Thank you.


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Knight of Dusk

Senior Member

12-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iklo View Post
Well said Knight.
Thanks Iklo

It got a bit lengthy but I get like that whenever I type. :X

@Corals
I think there was a thread in the bug forum about that which got Red response about it being fixed "next patch". That was awhile ago, I assumed it was fixed actually. I did see the same problem on Vi with her health shield however... could be universal problem with health scaling? Maybe I should head to the bug forum and make some new reports just in case.

@Jim

Indeed, I'd like to see him hp/ap too! But not too much hp scaling (or too good anyway). Like you say, that's what makes him so binary. Get ahead by a kill or two? Build tank all day get free damage as a bonus! That's one hell of a snowbally power to have.

That said, I really hope the AP ratios stay. Especially with the new Malady. That item is as if made for an AP Voli. Heck there's tons of fun and exciting new AP items!

Liandry's + Rylai's seems so awesome on him, I did some playing around on the PBE with it when the patch came. I've yet to be able to build both in a game on Live though


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Noblepeasant

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Senior Member

12-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volty View Post
This. The motivation to revisit Volibear is largely to resolve this binary nature. I will only consider any changes a success if they create more fun gameplay and counterplay than we have right now.

It would be nice if his passive gave a portion of the life he is due to regen up front so that it actually helps him survive more often.


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Cyraknoss

Senior Member

12-25-2012

Quote:
That said, I really hope the AP ratios stay. Especially with the new Malady. That item is as if made for an AP Voli. Heck there's tons of fun and exciting new AP items!

Liandry's + Rylai's seems so awesome on him, I did some playing around on the PBE with it when the patch came. I've yet to be able to build both in a game on Live though
It's really lack luster, If you're itemizing to boost his ult with AS and AP basically because liandry's works on current hp and Voli's ult puts out such ludicrous damage as it is the liandry effect isn't even noticeable. Rylai's still synergizes insanely well with Voli but he's too binary to allow a game to go long enough for him to really ever reach a full build.

Really wish people wouldn't be so hasty down voting the "he's in a good place" posts. Some of us have found builds and positions that along with our play style work really well for Volibear, we're simply making it known that if built and played a certain way he's working fine. We're not saying your play style is wrong just because it doesn't work we're just saying that just because SOME builds don't work doesn't mean they should get so drastic with changes that it ruins currently functioning ones.