Some simple Volibear playability thingies

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Iklo

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMaru View Post
@Volty

You said something about either removing the cast time on his ult or make it something worthy of the cast time.
What about make Volibear's ult activation something like a PBAoE where he is struck by a thunder that creates a singularity and attracts enemies to him? (like Orianna's ball)
Enemies further are pulled less, enemies closer are pulled more, take damage and maybe are CC`ed some way? Then you make the damage on his ult less because he would be able to stay on targets more and have a more powerful and reliable initiation.

Seems like something a thunder bear would do.

As I also mentioned, his W feels weird because while it`s not stacked if feels like he wasted 5 skill points on nothing and pushing the lane to keep the stacks is just terrible.
Can we get a remake on his W? something that would make us feel more "bearly" or more "thunder-ish"?
I was thinking about a low CD single-targeted skill. Instead of stacking Frenzy on Voli he would Stack it on enemies and refresh it on-hit. Every time he uses the skill he stacks the Frenzy on the enemy and only get the AS bonus while attacking that target.
The active on the W would deal AP based damage (clawing the enemy with an electric charged gauntlet), but after a max number of stacks (4 or 3) the next would still be an Execute that would deal damage based on health that consumed the stacks.

Then maybe the ult instead of pulling and CC-ing could pull and apply frenzy based on proximity to enemies? Idk, just some ideas to make Thunder Bear more Thunder-y. hahaha.
This man is full of ideas!


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JimMaru

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Senior Member

12-23-2012

Haha, thanks.
It comes from playing him so much I actually became afraid to play anything else mid-way through season 2.
The only problem here is that though there is a lot it can be done to make him better, we need to get him somewhere were he still has his own niche of "best early to mid-game 1v1 that becomes a good source of AoE damage late game".

The suggestions I made were simply to make him more viable both as a bruiser and tank, but also give him a viable AP role. I liked in season 2 to build him AP bruiser. Nashor's for AS and a lot of CDR, Warmog for health, Abyssal for damage and MR, Rylai for CC damage and bulkiness and Glacial Should/Omen for Armor. I deals a LOT of damage, especially with the 40% CDR you get.

Now in S3 this doesn't seem that great. Damage is cheaper and resistances more expensive, warmog doesn't give that much health anymore, rushing it isn't as efficient, but volibear has no AD scaling, so the S3 was a bit harsh on him.
He is not that viable top or in the jungle. He can shut down champions like Irelia, Darius, Riven and Jax, but who cares? Those champions can make easy come backs (Riven not so much), where as Volibear can't if he gets behind.
He needs more damage/utility and maybe other path routes to become on foot with other melee champions.

He is not bad, and you can do a lot if you know how to play him. He is just... Harder and more risky than other picks right now. That's why he has never been much popular and now feels less so than ever =/

I don't think that adding stuff to him would make him "OP" as he NEEDS to be very tanky to do anything, has a hard time farming and can be easily denied of kills. People just lose to him because they are making bad choices. Now that the jungler can't feed him as easily. I used to say to my jungler in pre-mades "Lv2 gank top, let me take the kill and only come back here if you want free kills".
It used to work. Volibear is very binary, give him an early kill and he will make you bear snacks all day.

But it's not healthy to a champion to be binary "I win my lane I win the game"... I don't know. This game need some champions re-balancing to fit season 3. The main thing I see that helped Voli is that, now that indomitable doesn't exist anymore, that 3 second fear REALLY helps him more than never.


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Ghave

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Volty I love you <3. My favorite champ finally getting some love!!


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Knight of Dusk

Senior Member

12-23-2012

I wonder how long it will take for any changes to make it to PBE for player testing. I'm itching to try Volibear 2.0 (Well, the changes likely won't be that dramatic, but hey).

Bare minimum I see very little work involved (but a very boring result). I don't think it'll go that way if Volty wants to see Volibear actually show up in a tournament for once.

But I don't think there will be anything really exciting happening either. Nothing requiring lots of iteration and animation work. Let's say sometime in Febuary if we're lucky? Early March?

Assuming this whole thing doesn't go Heimerdinger and is never heard from again. Next thing you know the champion is removed, the last hardcore fans having died from old age. Old age and crushed dreams.

Next LoL 2 is announced, with an all new cast. Morello 2.0 (his brain was placed in a jar and later implanted in a robotic shell, as cold as his heart and the bird he uses for an avatar) laughing hysterically in the background, having finally succeeded in erasing Irelia from history itself.


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JimMaru

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Senior Member

12-23-2012

Hahaha, that was dramatic Dusk.

I really think that the buffs here are not supposed to be a rework, but just some quality of life adjustments.
Say, like the Garen "Rework". Only changed how some stuff worked in numbers, changed a few interactions and all.
Voli received 2 buffs already that made him much more reliable even without his W nuke.
- Q giving some movement boost while running away.
- His E getting 1 more second fear.

Those are the biggest buffs he got, I think. Might seem small but make a huge difference.
I can see he getting a bigger burst of speed on and having part of the AS on his W passive like I said. That would already improve a WHOLE LOT his usability. The Ignore Unit collision would also be great and would probably be enough to make him much stronger and easier to play.
If his ult gave him Passive MR/Armor also he would become a competitive pick for me.
I find it very unlikely that he will get a different W like I said, though I would not say Volty would ignore the possibility of his Ult pulling in enemies since he said that making it worthy the cast time would be a good non-boring solution.

It all depends on what they want to do with the bear. It concerns me much that they were considering removing his AP ratios... I think that if you gave him 1 more AP ratio he would be a great AP top like Vlad or Rumble, but better, as he isn't a mage. I really don't want a bear that just bites people. I hated how people tried to play him when he was released with Atmogs... Really, no AD ratio and you build him AD?

If it goes like Garen rework it shouldn't take more than 1 month or two. But since they have to come up with a decision, pass through the bureaucratic part, then programing, intern tests then PBE...
It can take a while. Voli is not optimal, but he is good, and they are focusing their love on people that REALLY need it right now (heimer, karma, trundle visual, etc...).
Priorities are important too =P


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A bouncy Furret

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight of Dusk View Post
I wonder how long it will take for any changes to make it to PBE for player testing. I'm itching to try Volibear 2.0 (Well, the changes likely won't be that dramatic, but hey).

Bear minimum I see very little work involved (but a very boring result). I don't think it'll go that way if Volty wants to see Volibear actually show up in a tournament for once.

But I don't think there will be anything really exciting happening either. Nothing requiring lots of iteration and animation work. Let's say sometime in Febuary if we're lucky? Early March?

Assuming this whole thing doesn't go Heimerdinger and is never heard from again. Next thing you know the champion is removed, the last hardcore fans having died from old age. Old age and crushed dreams.

Next LoL 2 is announced, with an all new cast. Morello 2.0 (his brain was placed in a jar and later implanted in a robotic shell, as cold as his heart and the bird he uses for an avatar) laughing hysterically in the background, having finally succeeded in erasing Irelia from history itself.
The changes don't take long, if he gets any new particles or animations then it would take a bit longer. What takes a long time is the balance. They do extensive testing to make sure the changes are balanced.

The issue with that is Riot had a very very hard time judging Volibear's power levels for such a long time that it may happen again :/

I'd say March is a good guess, with hopes on Feb.


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Knight of Dusk

Senior Member

12-23-2012

@Jim

I agree, it's probably more along the lines of Garen's update. Throwing things areound and tweaking numbers here and there.

@Ursa

Extensive testing you say?


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JimMaru

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Senior Member

12-23-2012

LOL

Extensive, reasonable testing.
Everything in the game is tested considering the "Non-abused" case. Like Voli's W. It was balanced, as long as you weren't building 4/5 warmogs. But people started doing that, so it had to be nerfed and power was put somewhere else (E damage and Q utility, in that case).

I still want a remake on his W. It's what breaks Voli. It's by far the strongest and most useful skill he has with great synergy with his ult. 60% FREE AS on a On-Hit champion and a great execute? Seems great. But it makes his other skills really bad because of it otherwise he would be OP. I wouldn't mind trading some of the AS for more utility/damage here and there. He feels like an AA bot that NEEDS his ult do do anything. That anything isn't really that great, since he still relies on his W to get kills even if he was fighting with his ult... Idk...


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Duotriophobic

Member

12-23-2012

As a Voli main, I feel that he doesn't really need that much of a reworking. Perhaps the moving ult cast would be helpful and very much welcomed, but changing him to mostly (if not all) AD would take away the appeal of playing him. Yes, its true... Not a lot of people play him. But I believe he is perfectly viable as a solo top champion. I often have games where I have a full tank build (around 5.6k health) and still get upwards of 12-14 kills. I appreciate the attention that he is getting though. He is such an underused gem. But like another Voli player said earlier, I don't believe its a composition issue at all. Its just more of the items you choose.


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JimMaru

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Senior Member

12-23-2012

I do believe that he is strong, and that he can deal lots of damage while doing a full tank build.
The problem still is, if you're playing at another level, Volibear is an easy champion to shut down.
Most people think "I'm Xin, best 1v1 I can kill him" and then dies. With one early kill Volibear can really skyrocket as he is, as I mentioned, a binary champion. He needs to get ahead and then just snowball from there.
But if you play against someone who knows how to play passively or just knows how to deny you without actually committing into a duel, Volibear just becomes a piece of meat.
AP Teemo can just deny you with slow and blind. Vayne can just deny you from getting to her and scale on your health. Nasus can just W you and zone you and you won't be able to reach him. Fiora can Ult to make you lose W stacks and time on your ult.
Volibear needs someone really blood thirsty as an opponent for him to excel, otherwise he is just kited, denied, has his passive and ult blowed for nothing. And at higher ELOs you don`t see people playing that aggressive. So Voli, though really strong, is just not competitive.
Go against a Jayce. He pokes you with his Q and Gate and when you want to engage he throws you away and keep ranged attacking. If he is smart he will actually wait for you to ult and then blow you away and run with the gate, removing your long CD ult for a couple of hits.