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Some simple Volibear playability thingies

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Rossingol

Recruiter

12-21-2012

Quote:
jimmaru:
shukmeister is right.

I basically learned how to play this game with volibear. I've been playing him ever since and tested pretty much every possible build i could on season 2.
The problem with voli is that people want to go all-in with him like he is riven. Volibear is about playing passively until someone else engages you. When they do, you punish them so hard they will start fearing the bear.

At season 2 i had one early game strategy that always granted me free kills. I used to go surge+heal on him top lane and just keep farming passively until level 6, trying to avoid conflicts. After level six volibear's damage simply skyrockets, especially with the old surge on s2.
I've literally done this many times:
Post-lv6 just start putting yourself out of placement. Away from your minions and what not. This will encourage the enemy jungler to gank thinking it will be an easy kill. When you get ganked, ult, surge and just auto-attack the squishiest one. He will die really fast or try to run. Execute with w and focus the other one. With e and q used at the right times (not as a combo) you will either get the kill or force the other one to run away very low.
With your passive and a well-timed heal (before blowing passive and before ignite [60% health or so]) you can easily face 2 champions without dying.

Of course, now that you don't have surge, this is just a dumb strategy, though you have ignite. The problem with volibear is that he his kit is neither that of a tank or of a fighter. He has a lot of damage on his kit but he needs to survive long periods of time to dish that out and after that he is useless because of long cooldowns.
That's why you need to build volibear as a tanky as fighter (and as/ap e nice too with rylai and nashor for ap and cdr as my s2 core build).
You don't get volibear at champ selection to sulk gazilions of damage or for strong initiation power or to be a carry assassin. You take him to force your enemy to make terrible decisions:
-focus the carry and take 1500+ aoe damage on your whole team.
Or
-focus the bear and let the carry kill everyone on your team.

The idea of having a as/ap hybrid very tanky volibear is that he can deal absurds amounts of damage if ignored on team fights even if he is focusing the tank. Without any ap 150 damage for 12 seconds with a 1 hit per second means 1800 magic damage to the whole enemy team. With some ap you can easily hit 200 damage per hit and have more as than 1 hit/sec.

The problem is, his kit makes it hard for him to be played because he can't stick that easily and there isn't a tank steroid on his kit good enough, just like sejuani. At least he has his passive, but you shouldn't take that for granted early/mid game, when you will need it the most.

As someone who mains volibear and plays him pretty much every time i log at the game, if it were for me to choose some changes for the bear i would go:

[q]: Giving a bigger burst of speed that decays over time is much better for initiations, but he needs to ignore unity collision. Bonus points if activating it removes slows as garen's skill.

Why: He needs something that will give him better chasing potential, but minions are usually in the way. The "burst" would make him much better at ganking and initiating team fights.

Why not: This could be bad for top volibear, because, if you know how to play him properly, you're not supposed to use this as a initiation top lane, but as a way to keep close to your target. Unless you can make it something like "50% movement speed that decays over 3 seconds. For the 3 subsequent seconds you keep only 10% bonus movement speed" could make it more consistent.
Or maybe give the bigger boost only before he flings.

[w]
this is the most problematic skill for me. It's the best skills he has if you have to choose what to level, but since you need to stack it you will not have anything on you when you're not attacking. If you get ganked the 5 points you wasted on this skill are worthy nothing until you start attacking the enemy.
For me the frenzy is great, gives synergy with his kit and everything but it seems to me it hinders him a lot.
It's the same problem trynd/renek have all over again. You need to auto-attack to keep stacks (of fury), but keeping auto attacking will push your lane which is a terrible move.
Also, as is a very weak stat since he has no ad scaling and his ult doesn't last forever.

I think part of the passive should be actually passive (without stacking) and you receive a bonus for the stacks.

"frenzy: Passively grants volibear 3/6/9/12/15% as. Every time he auto attacks he stacks this effect up to 3 more stacks. (this way giving him the same 60% as with all the stacks).

At max stacks he gains ad equal to 0,025% his bonus health and may activate this skill to bite his enemy for x+12% of his bonus health damage that increases by 1% for every 1% health the enemy is missing.

While frenzy is at cooldown the skill can only stack once, losing the ad bonus."

this makes the skill more reliable when fighting single targets as well as when not fighting at all. It gives him more reason to build health for more damage while his ult is at cooldown and makes it more interesting to play him as you have to choose when to use your frenzy execute and when too keep it for more aa damage.

[e] keep it like that, but make the slow stronger at earlier ranks, make the range for the slow bigger, but make the effect weaker around the borders.

[r] passive: Volibear has 5/10/15% more armor and magic resist.
Active: Volibear is struck by a lightning (1 second cast) and slow enemies a area around him (size of an offensive aura) by 20% for 2 seconds. Enemies close to him are also paralyzed for .75 seconds.
Volibear also gains max stacks at frenzy upon activation and doubles this ability's passive.
For the next 10 seconds volibear's basic attacks create a chain lightning that hits up to 4 more targets, prioritizing champions. This effect deals 60/100/140+(0,25*ap) damage.

While this ability is on cooldown he loses it's passive."

the idea here is to give him more cc/gank power while also giving that tank steroid he doesn't have. I think that the damage on the lightning effect can even be weaker this way as a payoff for much more utility.

[passive] "chosen of the storm: If volibear takes damage that would get him below 30% of his max health he is surrounded by a storm shield that protects him from 20% of his max health as damage. If the shield is destroyed, the shield discharges static at an area around him silencing and slowing enemies for 10% of their movement speed for 1 second."

why? Ignite is by far now the strongest and most used spell in the game after flash. He will be basically always facing it and that makes his passive much weaker. Also, his passive doesn't make sense. Why is he the thunder's roar and the passive is called chosen of the storm, but this skill has nothing related to thunders or anything? =p

i think that these changes would be great on him, of course, with some number balancing here and there. I think that he was supposed to be an ap bruiser/tank rather than another ad one with the whole thunder thematic on him. He needs buffs on mobility/cc to stay relevant all the time and i think that his damage is a bit high currently, but he needs it since he has trouble staying close to champions and has no real hard cc.
He needs more thunder interactions/abilities to give him that cool "harbinger of the storm" feel he was supposed to have.

I don't think that, as you said, removing his ap ratios would be a good move. Why make him a thunder based champion that revolves around biting people? That's just... Weird.
Maybe making him the cc/tanky opposite of evelynn. She is an ap-almost-melee champion. But she is fast and burst-sy. Volibear would be the an ap fighter like akali or kat, but that is there to hazard everyone and fight for prolonged times while cc-ing the target and doing damage.

Making him an ad champion is just counter-intuitive with his thematic. Though it would be nice to have scaling that could make him take the path he wants depending on the game.
Like a fighter 1v1 volibear or a ap hazard volibear. (scaling ap cc and aoe vs scaling single targeted damage and tankness on ad).

Just hope you guys don't remove the whole thematic on him of the thunder's roar. I don't want a ursa clone. I like to strike my enemies with lightning without having to play olaf.


this. So much this.


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Joebags

Senior Member

12-21-2012

I've been playing Volibear pretty much exclusively the past 3 days and I've been doing really well with him in the jungle. Cheaper health, better itemization (health items, tenacity options, slow reduction boots), and better defensive masteries (tenacity + slow reduction), and bearier are all amazing on him. They make him really almost unstoppable with a full build.

I still reaaaaallly think that his W stacks need to last a bit longer (+1 second minimum, +2 seconds would be amazing). That's honestly his biggest issue at the moment. He doesn't need much more help to be honest, although making his R have no delay would be a nice change as well.

It'd be really easy to make voli pretty overpowered if the wrong things are buffed in the wrong ways. As it stand's he's pretty solid.


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JimMaru

Recruiter

12-21-2012

Quote:
Joebags:
I've been playing Volibear pretty much exclusively the past 3 days and I've been doing really well with him in the jungle. Cheaper health, better itemization (health items, tenacity options, slow reduction boots), and better defensive masteries (tenacity + slow reduction), and bearier are all amazing on him. They make him really almost unstoppable with a full build.

I still reaaaaallly think that his W stacks need to last a bit longer (+1 second minimum, +2 seconds would be amazing). That's honestly his biggest issue at the moment. He doesn't need much more help to be honest, although making his R have no delay would be a nice change as well.

It'd be really easy to make voli pretty overpowered if the wrong things are buffed in the wrong ways. As it stand's he's pretty solid.


He is strong, but he has some trouble staying relevant and keeping himself to his target. Also his mechanics has some problem with responsiveness (Q stop in the middle of it and ult makes him stop) and his niche isn't so great now at S3.

I think that lowering the power/damage he has in his kit but making it more useful/reliable in both utility and damage would be great. Sometimes you fight someone, get him almost dead and them he can just walk away from you with dashes and what not.
He needs hard CC/mobility to keep up with some targets. Having all his utility into 2 long CD skills that aren't worthy leveling up is terrible and his Execute needs to be set up to be used.
Countering Volibear is pretty easy, because he has a lot of Hard Counters, that LoL usually doesn't have.
Go Volibear agains a well played Teemo that knows how to harass/be passive, or against an Ahri top. Anybody who has more mobility pretty much destroys the bear. Even Malphite with that slow can deny you. Force you to ult then move away from you, making you useless for almost 2 minutes.

He IS indeed very strong. But that is usually at normals/blind pick. You can counter him VERY hard in blind pick and he has no consistency.

He receives almost bulkiness from his Kit which makes him item dependent. But he has also a hard time farming against a lot of poke/harass champions and can be easily denied.
Want to make Volibear have a hard time? Go Vayne against one top lane. Wanna close on me? Shoot him away. Want to farm? Hit him hard. Want to be tank? Scale your damage on his health.

He is indeed strong. If you go as Riven against him. If you go Jax against him. Even if you go Darius against him. But any champion more tanky (Shen/Garen/Malphite) or poke/utility (Fiora/Teemo/Vlad) can hurt him a lot. He is great against All-in champions, but falls apart against any champion that can play more passively.


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A bouncy Furret

Senior Member

12-21-2012

There's so much discussion it's hard to keep up with it all!

Within the past few days this thread has grown faster than it ever has. I'm impressed


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Iklo

Senior Member

12-21-2012

RIOT I approve this bear for the Volibear design team. This is what I think all of us fellow bears wanted but could not put into words. Volty please if you are still keeping up with this thread then take this whole post into consideration. Just the ideas are wonderful. Run it by Morello and see how it balances out. This just adds so much bear flavor to Volibear so much flavor for such a great champion. VOLTY READ BELOW PLEASE.

Quote:
JimMaru:
shukmeister is right.

I basically LEARNED how to play this game with Volibear. I've been playing him ever since and tested pretty much every possible build I could on season 2.
The problem with Voli is that people want to go all-in with him like he is Riven. Volibear is about playing passively until someone else engages you. When they do, you punish them so hard they will start fearing the bear.

At season 2 I had one early game strategy that ALWAYS granted me free kills. I used to go Surge+Heal on him top lane and just keep farming passively until level 6, trying to avoid conflicts. After level six Volibear's damage simply skyrockets, especially with the old Surge on S2.
I've literally done this many times:
Post-lv6 just start putting yourself out of placement. Away from your minions and what not. This will encourage the enemy jungler to gank thinking it will be an easy kill. When you get ganked, ult, surge and just auto-attack the squishiest one. He will die really fast or try to run. Execute with W and focus the other one. With E and Q used at the right times (not as a combo) you will either get the kill or force the other one to run away very low.
With your passive and a well-timed heal (before blowing passive and before ignite [60% health or so]) you can easily face 2 champions without dying.

Of course, now that you don't have surge, this is just a dumb strategy, though you have ignite. The problem with Volibear is that he his kit is neither that of a tank or of a fighter. He has a LOT of damage on his kit but he needs to survive long periods of time to dish that out and after that he is useless because of long cooldowns.
That's why you need to build volibear as a Tanky AS fighter (and AS/AP e nice too with Rylai and Nashor for AP and CDR as my S2 core build).
You don't get Volibear at champ selection to sulk gazilions of damage or for strong initiation power or to be a carry assassin. You take him to force your enemy to make terrible decisions:
-Focus the carry and take 1500+ AoE damage on your whole team.
OR
-Focus the bear and let the carry kill everyone on your team.

The idea of having a AS/AP hybrid very Tanky Volibear is that he can deal absurds amounts of damage if ignored on team fights EVEN IF HE IS FOCUSING THE TANK. Without any AP 150 damage for 12 seconds with a 1 hit per second means 1800 magic damage to the whole enemy team. with some AP you can easily hit 200 damage per hit and have more AS than 1 hit/sec.

The problem is, his kit makes it hard for him to be played because he can't stick that easily and there isn't a Tank steroid on his kit good enough, just like Sejuani. At least he has his passive, but you shouldn't take that for granted early/mid game, when you will need it the most.

As someone who mains Volibear and plays him pretty much every time I log at the game, if it were for me to choose some changes for the bear I would go:

[Q]: Giving a bigger burst of Speed that decays over time is much better for initiations, but he needs to ignore unity collision. Bonus points if activating it removes slows as Garen's skill.

Why: He needs something that will give him better chasing potential, but minions are usually in the way. The "Burst" would make him much better at Ganking and Initiating team fights.

Why NOT: This could be bad for Top Volibear, because, if you know how to play him properly, you're not supposed to use this as a initiation top lane, but as a way to keep close to your target. Unless you can make it something like "50% movement speed that decays over 3 seconds. for the 3 subsequent seconds you keep only 10% bonus movement speed" could make it more consistent.
Or maybe give the bigger boost only BEFORE he flings.

[W]
This is the most problematic skill for me. It's the best skills he has if you have to choose what to level, but since you need to stack it you will not have anything on you when you're not attacking. If you get ganked the 5 points you wasted on this skill are worthy NOTHING until you start attacking the enemy.
For me the frenzy is great, gives synergy with his kit and everything but it seems to me it hinders him a lot.
It's the same problem Trynd/Renek have all over again. You need to auto-attack to keep stacks (of fury), but keeping auto attacking will push your lane which is a terrible move.
Also, AS is a very weak stat since he has no AD scaling and his ult doesn't last forever.

I think part of the passive should be actually passive (without stacking) and you receive a bonus for the stacks.

"Frenzy: Passively grants Volibear 3/6/9/12/15% AS. Every time he Auto attacks he stacks this effect up to 3 more stacks. (this way giving him the same 60% AS with all the stacks).

At max stacks he gains AD equal to 0,025% his bonus health and may activate this skill to bite his enemy for X+12% of his bonus health damage that increases by 1% for every 1% health the enemy is missing.

While frenzy is at cooldown the skill can only stack once, losing the AD bonus."

This makes the skill more reliable when fighting single targets as well as when not fighting at all. It gives him more reason to build health for more damage while his ult is at cooldown and makes it more interesting to play him as you have to choose when to use your Frenzy execute and when too keep it for more AA damage.

[E] Keep it like that, but make the slow stronger at earlier ranks, make the range for the slow bigger, but make the effect weaker around the borders.

[R] Passive: Volibear has 5/10/15% more armor and magic resist.
Active: Volibear is struck by a lightning (1 second cast) and slow enemies a area around him (size of an offensive aura) by 20% for 2 seconds. Enemies close to him are also paralyzed for .75 seconds.
Volibear also gains Max Stacks at Frenzy upon activation and doubles this ability's passive.
For the next 10 seconds Volibear's basic attacks create a chain lightning that hits up to 4 more targets, prioritizing champions. This effect deals 60/100/140+(0,25*AP) damage.

While this ability is on cooldown he loses it's passive."

The idea here is to give him more CC/Gank power while also giving that tank steroid he doesn't have. I think that the damage on the Lightning effect can even be weaker this way as a payoff for much more utility.

[Passive] "Chosen of the storm: If Volibear takes damage that would get him below 30% of his max health he is surrounded by a storm shield that protects him from 20% of his max health as damage. If the shield is destroyed, the shield discharges static at an area around him silencing and slowing enemies for 10% of their movement speed for 1 second."

Why? Ignite is by far now the strongest and most used spell in the game after flash. He will be basically always facing it and that makes his passive much weaker. Also, his passive doesn't make sense. Why is he the Thunder's Roar and the passive is called chosen of the storm, but this skill has nothing related to thunders or anything? =P

I think that these changes would be great on him, of course, with some number balancing here and there. I think that he was supposed to be an AP bruiser/tank rather than another AD one with the whole thunder thematic on him. He needs buffs on mobility/cc to stay relevant all the time and I think that his damage is a bit high currently, but he needs it since he has trouble staying close to champions and has no real hard CC.
He needs more Thunder interactions/abilities to give him that cool "Harbinger of the storm" feel he was supposed to have.

I don't think that, as you said, removing his AP ratios would be a good move. Why make him a Thunder based champion that revolves around biting people? That's just... weird.
Maybe making him the CC/Tanky opposite of Evelynn. She is an AP-almost-melee champion. But she is fast and burst-sy. Volibear would be the an AP fighter like Akali or Kat, but that is there to hazard everyone and fight for prolonged times while CC-ing the target and doing damage.

Making him an AD champion is just counter-intuitive with his thematic. Though it would be nice to have scaling that could make him take the path he wants depending on the game.
Like a fighter 1v1 Volibear or a AP hazard Volibear. (Scaling AP CC and AoE vs Scaling single targeted damage and Tankness on AD).

Just hope you guys don't remove the whole thematic on him of the Thunder's Roar. I don't want a Ursa clone. I like to strike my enemies with lightning without having to play Olaf.


I do not think this can be repeated enough. This post is a god send.


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Havoc Lobster

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
JimMaru:
shukmeister is right.

I basically LEARNED how to play this game with Volibear. I've been playing him ever since and tested pretty much every possible build I could on season 2.
The problem with Voli is that people want to go all-in with him like he is Riven. Volibear is about playing passively until someone else engages you. When they do, you punish them so hard they will start fearing the bear.

At season 2 I had one early game strategy that ALWAYS granted me free kills. I used to go Surge+Heal on him top lane and just keep farming passively until level 6, trying to avoid conflicts. After level six Volibear's damage simply skyrockets, especially with the old Surge on S2.
I've literally done this many times:
Post-lv6 just start putting yourself out of placement. Away from your minions and what not. This will encourage the enemy jungler to gank thinking it will be an easy kill. When you get ganked, ult, surge and just auto-attack the squishiest one. He will die really fast or try to run. Execute with W and focus the other one. With E and Q used at the right times (not as a combo) you will either get the kill or force the other one to run away very low.
With your passive and a well-timed heal (before blowing passive and before ignite [60% health or so]) you can easily face 2 champions without dying.

Of course, now that you don't have surge, this is just a dumb strategy, though you have ignite. The problem with Volibear is that he his kit is neither that of a tank or of a fighter. He has a LOT of damage on his kit but he needs to survive long periods of time to dish that out and after that he is useless because of long cooldowns.
That's why you need to build volibear as a Tanky AS fighter (and AS/AP e nice too with Rylai and Nashor for AP and CDR as my S2 core build).
You don't get Volibear at champ selection to sulk gazilions of damage or for strong initiation power or to be a carry assassin. You take him to force your enemy to make terrible decisions:
-Focus the carry and take 1500+ AoE damage on your whole team.
OR
-Focus the bear and let the carry kill everyone on your team.

The idea of having a AS/AP hybrid very Tanky Volibear is that he can deal absurds amounts of damage if ignored on team fights EVEN IF HE IS FOCUSING THE TANK. Without any AP 150 damage for 12 seconds with a 1 hit per second means 1800 magic damage to the whole enemy team. with some AP you can easily hit 200 damage per hit and have more AS than 1 hit/sec.

The problem is, his kit makes it hard for him to be played because he can't stick that easily and there isn't a Tank steroid on his kit good enough, just like Sejuani. At least he has his passive, but you shouldn't take that for granted early/mid game, when you will need it the most.

As someone who mains Volibear and plays him pretty much every time I log at the game, if it were for me to choose some changes for the bear I would go:

[Q]: Giving a bigger burst of Speed that decays over time is much better for initiations, but he needs to ignore unity collision. Bonus points if activating it removes slows as Garen's skill.

Why: He needs something that will give him better chasing potential, but minions are usually in the way. The "Burst" would make him much better at Ganking and Initiating team fights.

Why NOT: This could be bad for Top Volibear, because, if you know how to play him properly, you're not supposed to use this as a initiation top lane, but as a way to keep close to your target. Unless you can make it something like "50% movement speed that decays over 3 seconds. for the 3 subsequent seconds you keep only 10% bonus movement speed" could make it more consistent.
Or maybe give the bigger boost only BEFORE he flings.

[W]
This is the most problematic skill for me. It's the best skills he has if you have to choose what to level, but since you need to stack it you will not have anything on you when you're not attacking. If you get ganked the 5 points you wasted on this skill are worthy NOTHING until you start attacking the enemy.
For me the frenzy is great, gives synergy with his kit and everything but it seems to me it hinders him a lot.
It's the same problem Trynd/Renek have all over again. You need to auto-attack to keep stacks (of fury), but keeping auto attacking will push your lane which is a terrible move.
Also, AS is a very weak stat since he has no AD scaling and his ult doesn't last forever.

I think part of the passive should be actually passive (without stacking) and you receive a bonus for the stacks.

"Frenzy: Passively grants Volibear 3/6/9/12/15% AS. Every time he Auto attacks he stacks this effect up to 3 more stacks. (this way giving him the same 60% AS with all the stacks).

At max stacks he gains AD equal to 0,025% his bonus health and may activate this skill to bite his enemy for X+12% of his bonus health damage that increases by 1% for every 1% health the enemy is missing.

While frenzy is at cooldown the skill can only stack once, losing the AD bonus."

This makes the skill more reliable when fighting single targets as well as when not fighting at all. It gives him more reason to build health for more damage while his ult is at cooldown and makes it more interesting to play him as you have to choose when to use your Frenzy execute and when too keep it for more AA damage.

[E] Keep it like that, but make the slow stronger at earlier ranks, make the range for the slow bigger, but make the effect weaker around the borders.

[R] Passive: Volibear has 5/10/15% more armor and magic resist.
Active: Volibear is struck by a lightning (1 second cast) and slow enemies a area around him (size of an offensive aura) by 20% for 2 seconds. Enemies close to him are also paralyzed for .75 seconds.
Volibear also gains Max Stacks at Frenzy upon activation and doubles this ability's passive.
For the next 10 seconds Volibear's basic attacks create a chain lightning that hits up to 4 more targets, prioritizing champions. This effect deals 60/100/140+(0,25*AP) damage.

While this ability is on cooldown he loses it's passive."

The idea here is to give him more CC/Gank power while also giving that tank steroid he doesn't have. I think that the damage on the Lightning effect can even be weaker this way as a payoff for much more utility.

[Passive] "Chosen of the storm: If Volibear takes damage that would get him below 30% of his max health he is surrounded by a storm shield that protects him from 20% of his max health as damage. If the shield is destroyed, the shield discharges static at an area around him silencing and slowing enemies for 10% of their movement speed for 1 second."

Why? Ignite is by far now the strongest and most used spell in the game after flash. He will be basically always facing it and that makes his passive much weaker. Also, his passive doesn't make sense. Why is he the Thunder's Roar and the passive is called chosen of the storm, but this skill has nothing related to thunders or anything? =P

I think that these changes would be great on him, of course, with some number balancing here and there. I think that he was supposed to be an AP bruiser/tank rather than another AD one with the whole thunder thematic on him. He needs buffs on mobility/cc to stay relevant all the time and I think that his damage is a bit high currently, but he needs it since he has trouble staying close to champions and has no real hard CC.
He needs more Thunder interactions/abilities to give him that cool "Harbinger of the storm" feel he was supposed to have.

I don't think that, as you said, removing his AP ratios would be a good move. Why make him a Thunder based champion that revolves around biting people? That's just... weird.
Maybe making him the CC/Tanky opposite of Evelynn. She is an AP-almost-melee champion. But she is fast and burst-sy. Volibear would be the an AP fighter like Akali or Kat, but that is there to hazard everyone and fight for prolonged times while CC-ing the target and doing damage.

Making him an AD champion is just counter-intuitive with his thematic. Though it would be nice to have scaling that could make him take the path he wants depending on the game.
Like a fighter 1v1 Volibear or a AP hazard Volibear. (Scaling AP CC and AoE vs Scaling single targeted damage and Tankness on AD).

Just hope you guys don't remove the whole thematic on him of the Thunder's Roar. I don't want a Ursa clone. I like to strike my enemies with lightning without having to play Olaf.


What a great post. Not only did it give me some insight on current Volibear, but I really liked the balance ideas presented, especially for his passive.


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Knight of Dusk

Senior Member

12-22-2012

Hahahahaha, oh wow. JimMaru's post sure is getting quite some attention. But it's well deserved

Volty pls.


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austseraph

Member

12-22-2012

Great to see Volty homing in on the truly, truly, truly outrageous (played an epic Taric game earlier) posts in this thread.

Keep reading Volty, we'll make this easy for you we promise!


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Knight of Dusk

Senior Member

12-22-2012

Thought about something yesterday while playing support bear. Would it be possible to get some sort of visual effect to show your allies if you have your passive up? (just your team, not the enemy team, that would blow SO HARD) It makes it easier when your supporting/starting a fight by letting your pals know that you're not running in trying to get yourself killed but actually trying to safely bait.

Sometimes you don't have the time to type into chat, especially when you're Voli, constantly looking for that split second someone suddenly happened into a prime position for a Q -> E combo and have to act immediately.


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ZodiacsClockwork

Senior Member

12-22-2012

Quote:
JimMaru:
shukmeister is right.

I basically LEARNED how to play this game with Volibear. I've been playing him ever since and tested pretty much every possible build I could on season 2.
The problem with Voli is that people want to go all-in with him like he is Riven. Volibear is about playing passively until someone else engages you. When they do, you punish them so hard they will start fearing the bear.

At season 2 I had one early game strategy that ALWAYS granted me free kills. I used to go Surge+Heal on him top lane and just keep farming passively until level 6, trying to avoid conflicts. After level six Volibear's damage simply skyrockets, especially with the old Surge on S2.
I've literally done this many times:
Post-lv6 just start putting yourself out of placement. Away from your minions and what not. This will encourage the enemy jungler to gank thinking it will be an easy kill. When you get ganked, ult, surge and just auto-attack the squishiest one. He will die really fast or try to run. Execute with W and focus the other one. With E and Q used at the right times (not as a combo) you will either get the kill or force the other one to run away very low.
With your passive and a well-timed heal (before blowing passive and before ignite [60% health or so]) you can easily face 2 champions without dying.

Of course, now that you don't have surge, this is just a dumb strategy, though you have ignite. The problem with Volibear is that he his kit is neither that of a tank or of a fighter. He has a LOT of damage on his kit but he needs to survive long periods of time to dish that out and after that he is useless because of long cooldowns.
That's why you need to build volibear as a Tanky AS fighter (and AS/AP e nice too with Rylai and Nashor for AP and CDR as my S2 core build).
You don't get Volibear at champ selection to sulk gazilions of damage or for strong initiation power or to be a carry assassin. You take him to force your enemy to make terrible decisions:
-Focus the carry and take 1500+ AoE damage on your whole team.
OR
-Focus the bear and let the carry kill everyone on your team.

The idea of having a AS/AP hybrid very Tanky Volibear is that he can deal absurds amounts of damage if ignored on team fights EVEN IF HE IS FOCUSING THE TANK. Without any AP 150 damage for 12 seconds with a 1 hit per second means 1800 magic damage to the whole enemy team. with some AP you can easily hit 200 damage per hit and have more AS than 1 hit/sec.

The problem is, his kit makes it hard for him to be played because he can't stick that easily and there isn't a Tank steroid on his kit good enough, just like Sejuani. At least he has his passive, but you shouldn't take that for granted early/mid game, when you will need it the most.

As someone who mains Volibear and plays him pretty much every time I log at the game, if it were for me to choose some changes for the bear I would go:

[Q]: Giving a bigger burst of Speed that decays over time is much better for initiations, but he needs to ignore unity collision. Bonus points if activating it removes slows as Garen's skill.

Why: He needs something that will give him better chasing potential, but minions are usually in the way. The "Burst" would make him much better at Ganking and Initiating team fights.

Why NOT: This could be bad for Top Volibear, because, if you know how to play him properly, you're not supposed to use this as a initiation top lane, but as a way to keep close to your target. Unless you can make it something like "50% movement speed that decays over 3 seconds. for the 3 subsequent seconds you keep only 10% bonus movement speed" could make it more consistent.
Or maybe give the bigger boost only BEFORE he flings.

[W]
This is the most problematic skill for me. It's the best skills he has if you have to choose what to level, but since you need to stack it you will not have anything on you when you're not attacking. If you get ganked the 5 points you wasted on this skill are worthy NOTHING until you start attacking the enemy.
For me the frenzy is great, gives synergy with his kit and everything but it seems to me it hinders him a lot.
It's the same problem Trynd/Renek have all over again. You need to auto-attack to keep stacks (of fury), but keeping auto attacking will push your lane which is a terrible move.
Also, AS is a very weak stat since he has no AD scaling and his ult doesn't last forever.

I think part of the passive should be actually passive (without stacking) and you receive a bonus for the stacks.

"Frenzy: Passively grants Volibear 3/6/9/12/15% AS. Every time he Auto attacks he stacks this effect up to 3 more stacks. (this way giving him the same 60% AS with all the stacks).

At max stacks he gains AD equal to 0,025% his bonus health and may activate this skill to bite his enemy for X+12% of his bonus health damage that increases by 1% for every 1% health the enemy is missing.

While frenzy is at cooldown the skill can only stack once, losing the AD bonus."

This makes the skill more reliable when fighting single targets as well as when not fighting at all. It gives him more reason to build health for more damage while his ult is at cooldown and makes it more interesting to play him as you have to choose when to use your Frenzy execute and when too keep it for more AA damage.

[E] Keep it like that, but make the slow stronger at earlier ranks, make the range for the slow bigger, but make the effect weaker around the borders.

[R] Passive: Volibear has 5/10/15% more armor and magic resist.
Active: Volibear is struck by a lightning (1 second cast) and slow enemies a area around him (size of an offensive aura) by 20% for 2 seconds. Enemies close to him are also paralyzed for .75 seconds.
Volibear also gains Max Stacks at Frenzy upon activation and doubles this ability's passive.
For the next 10 seconds Volibear's basic attacks create a chain lightning that hits up to 4 more targets, prioritizing champions. This effect deals 60/100/140+(0,25*AP) damage.

While this ability is on cooldown he loses it's passive."

The idea here is to give him more CC/Gank power while also giving that tank steroid he doesn't have. I think that the damage on the Lightning effect can even be weaker this way as a payoff for much more utility.

[Passive] "Chosen of the storm: If Volibear takes damage that would get him below 30% of his max health he is surrounded by a storm shield that protects him from 20% of his max health as damage. If the shield is destroyed, the shield discharges static at an area around him silencing and slowing enemies for 10% of their movement speed for 1 second."

Why? Ignite is by far now the strongest and most used spell in the game after flash. He will be basically always facing it and that makes his passive much weaker. Also, his passive doesn't make sense. Why is he the Thunder's Roar and the passive is called chosen of the storm, but this skill has nothing related to thunders or anything? =P

I think that these changes would be great on him, of course, with some number balancing here and there. I think that he was supposed to be an AP bruiser/tank rather than another AD one with the whole thunder thematic on him. He needs buffs on mobility/cc to stay relevant all the time and I think that his damage is a bit high currently, but he needs it since he has trouble staying close to champions and has no real hard CC.
He needs more Thunder interactions/abilities to give him that cool "Harbinger of the storm" feel he was supposed to have.

I don't think that, as you said, removing his AP ratios would be a good move. Why make him a Thunder based champion that revolves around biting people? That's just... weird.
Maybe making him the CC/Tanky opposite of Evelynn. She is an AP-almost-melee champion. But she is fast and burst-sy. Volibear would be the an AP fighter like Akali or Kat, but that is there to hazard everyone and fight for prolonged times while CC-ing the target and doing damage.

Making him an AD champion is just counter-intuitive with his thematic. Though it would be nice to have scaling that could make him take the path he wants depending on the game.
Like a fighter 1v1 Volibear or a AP hazard Volibear. (Scaling AP CC and AoE vs Scaling single targeted damage and Tankness on AD).

Just hope you guys don't remove the whole thematic on him of the Thunder's Roar. I don't want a Ursa clone. I like to strike my enemies with lightning without having to play Olaf.

I like this make my thunder bear have more thunder