Some simple Volibear playability thingies

First Riot Post
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Iklo

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Is Not Gay View Post
I think Volibear is already strong, and for the most part relatively misunderstood and underestimated. I'm not against buffs for him, but I think it would be VERY EASY to make Volibear extremely OP with just a few small buffs. All I want is for the balance team to tread carefully here
Like he said before please do not buff him so he has to be nerfed so badly that he ends up in a bad spot. He shouldnt have added power just better chasing ability. His power when he gets to a target is fine at the moment, but getting to the target is the problem in most cases. I don't want to witness last year's winter nerfs all over again </3.


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Ghave

Senior Member

12-20-2012

I loved voli when he came out. i played him for months. My friends who have high elo always made fun of me because they said voli wasnt very good and didnt bring much to the team. Slowly over time i found this to be true. I ignored if for so long and i wanted it to be false but i just wasnt getting results with him.

This makes me so happy. Thank you Volty and please get him a new skin, its been over a year!! Thanks!!


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RandomICE

Senior Member

12-20-2012

This has to be done. It only makes sense since he has been out for quite a long time and yet the newer champs seem to be paid more attention to. Oh, and Viktor with his wonky playstyle.


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Havoc Lobster

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Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by heat511 View Post
His problem imo is he is easily kited. This leads to either teamfight scenarios where you wreck everyone with his ult and have a lot of fun or just stand there being semi useless.

I'd like to see a slow (even a small one) on the burst dmg on his W. Even if you had to adjust his Q accordingly. Another idea is shorter cooldown on his Q and have it clear snares although that could be OP.

I've had a few games where I carried harder than anything ever with him. Old ionic spark (has it changed recently?) plus his ult was/is terrifying in the right circumstance. HP scaling skills are inherently hard to balance due to itemization though although the new items are a step in the right direction.

I guess my main beef with him would be this. You pop Q and run in. Your priority target flashes away, the buff wears off and you get kited. With strong initiate this doesn't matter and you still contribute. Without that you end up just being a sad bear and a lot of team comps rely on his role (top/jungler) being the strong initiate.

One last thought, his passive cooldown is long as hell and when it is up ignites make you sad. This is really a built in problem with the champ that wouldn't be so frustrating if something else was slightly tweaked in his kit.

One more thought (sorry been drinking). His base attack speed is really slow considering his ult. You need frozen mallet to not spend your entire time chasing and you need attack speed items to drive his ult. You also need to build tanky to not get splatted. Lategame full item voli is perfectly strong (maybe OP honestly) but most games don't get there and the interim can be rough in terms of figuring out what you need when to maximize effectiveness.
I think it'd be hilarious if his ult made it possible to attack while moving, lol.


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Volty

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Game Designer

12-20-2012
10 of 14 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by shukmeister View Post
Hi guys, my name is shukmeister and I was one of the top Volibear players back when I played. Although I have never posted before, I would like to voice my opinion now as someone who has logged 300+ Volibear games.

Proof is a link to my guide with my scores. Items and masteries are not updated for S3, but all the gameplay concepts are there: http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-le...ng-soon-238274


I very strongly believe that Volibear is in a very good place right now. Although this thread is dedicated to the issues with his kit, I argue that people just do not know how to play Volibear correctly. If you fundamentally change the way you USE his abilities, you will see an enormous amount of success.

What am I talking about?

Volibear is not a gap-closing champion. He instead functions as a CC heavy character that you cannot get away from. Think about Darius: if you get near him, you're not getting away.

1. NEVER use Rolling Thunder to close a gap. Instead, simply walk up to the opponent and start auto attacking them. You use Q only when they start running away.

2. You should NEVER use a Q+E combo. Voli has long cooldowns and this combo destroys his sticking potential. Space out your CC over a long time: begin with auto attacks, then flip, then continue sticking using the bonus movement speed of Q, then when they start getting away use E, by now they have low health so use your execute.

3. Don't be afraid to use his ultimate on one person. This is how I get the vast majority of my kills in lane. I walk behind them, ult, and use my cc to land more auto attacks.

4. Don't focus on getting to the enemy carries. You are a great peeler, and by attacking one of the enemies you hit many of them.

5. Do not stack health. I know it has double scaling with his passive and W, but attack speed is just as important. You must have an even mix of offense and defense to make use of Voli's great damage potential.



S3 items are amazing on Voli. If you build Zephyr, new Boots of Swiftness, Movement speed quints, and defensive masteries (Tenacious and Relentless), you will have no trouble getting to the enemy team. Your movement speed will hover around 440 without your Q and once you get there your CC will ensure more ultimate empowered attacks. I highly believe this is an itemization issue, not a kit issue.



Volibear is definitely a hybrid champion. With a little attack speed and a sunfire's cape, you will be putting on the pain. The best part is that people can't build resistances against you for your damage is split between physical and magic. If you land a few ultimate empowered hits, AP Voli actually has hilariously high scaling. Theoretically: without building attack speed, and assuming you can land every hit in the duration, Voli's ultimate has a 14:1 AP scaling! Realistically, however, building AP on Voli sacrifices a lot, but provides an awesome choice for a team.



This is a sweet change. However, if the player knows that there is a cast time, they must change their play style to accomodate for this difficulty. I ONLY cast the ult when I am behind and close to my target. This prevents them from running back to their tower without crossing paths with me.

Do you want to get first blood EVERY game as Volibear? This amazing guide taught me how to do it: http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=...ar-build-guide
- Run armor pen runes, full offensive mastery, and level up W twice before getting E. Ignite before you bite and gg!

I will probably be berated for saying that Volibear does not need many changes, but I truly believe he is very underpowered simply because people aren't playing him correctly. Hopefully some of what I said helps :P

The only change I would recommend is a slight increase in the range on his ult's bounces. His lightning rarely hits more than one person in the vast majority of teamfights.

I also love the idea of a toggle ult

Thank you for looking into this Riot! Love you guys.
Thank you for this post shukmeister, there is some great information here!


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A bouncy Furret

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volty View Post
Thank you for this post shukmeister, there is some great information here!
One thing that these changes should seek to accomplish is a better established direction for playing. (A lot of this is just role definition though)


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Havoc Lobster

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Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Havoc Lobster View Post
I think it'd be hilarious if his ult made it possible to attack while moving, lol.
I agree, stranger!


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Knight of Dusk

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Attacking WHILE moving you say?

I AM THROWING MY MONEY AT THE SCREEN BUT NOTHING IS HAPPENING, VOLTY HALP.

Actually, Volty, you mentioned possible removal of AP ratios. But what about his physical/magical damage split? Will it remain? Or could he be turned into a mostly physical or magical champ?

I ask because resistance pen. is a concern, Black Cleaver is one of those items that could be amazing on him, as is Malady. Both are actually decent buys on him as it is, but it comes with a bad feeling that either item leaves half his kit out of the picture.

On the other hand, I like the hybrid damage. He IS a bear. That's magic. Sort of. I think. Maybe.


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madAdam Inc

Member

12-21-2012

Dear Riot,

I've been playing volibear almost exclusively season 3.... Riot, please don't ruin volibear. Volibear, like Kayle, is an odd champion that requires an odd playstyle to excel at... This champion matches my personality so well and I sense that you're about to change it so that others can play him just like they play any other champ.... At the end of the day, there are over a hundred other champions that are essentially the exact same. Why can't we keep volibear different?

Thanks,
Adam


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shorttallguy

Member

12-21-2012

I am glad shukmeister posted his thoughts (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...3#post32663843) because I too am an avid Volibear player and I 100% agree with everything he said. I just found this thread and I hope I'm not too late to give my 2 cents because this talk of messing with Voli concerns me.

To me Voli is a perfect champ. He has some weaknesses and he has a lot of strengths. He's not too strong and not too weak. He's viable at all stages of the game and his kit is awesome. He has no hard counters. I would really hate to see him messed with. Consider this, I have 2 Penta Kills in all my LoL games and one is with Voli the other is with Nasus. I have well above a 50% win rate with him. He is one of my go to champs when I really want a win.

I think the problem is, like shukmeister said, people don't know how to play him. I play him a lot of different ways but here's my main season 3 guide I made for him: http://www.lolking.net/guides/45635. I play him Jungle or Top and can lane against anyone.

If something is changed on Voli I don't see it being for the better. Yes, it may be different, but not better. Any change would require simultaneous buffs and nerfs because anything else would make him unbalance since he is perfectly balanced now.

With that said, if something MUST be changed, I would not object too much to Frenzy taking a few more hits to activate, but then it better do more damage too or he better receive a buff somewhere else. I'm afraid to think of any other nerf to Voli. For buffs, the cast while moving R is a good idea. Allowing R to do some initial AOE damage on cast isn't too bad either but may make the skill OP. Another buff for E could be fear or debuff on enemy champs or a buff on Voli but it's not needed. If you really want to make him strong make his Rolling Thunder make CC only 50% effective while it's activated. Then Voli would be an unstoppable monster.

Above all else, I just hope the decision to rework Voli is not final and will be reconsidered. I know he isn't played a lot but I enjoy playing him the way he is. In fact, he is one of my favorite champs and love the whole design overall. I just think people don't really know how strong Voli can be in the right hands so they over look him. Not every champ can be in the spot light though. There are always flavor of the months. I know of a few other champs that fall into this category. Syndra, Zed, and Kha'zix I know for a fact can be ridiculously strong and everyone thinks they are weak because no one knows how to play them. It's the whole Jayce thing all over again. Once one person learns them and dominates then all of the sudden a champ does a complete 180 from being unplayable trash to the most OP thing in the game.

Voli has already seen his share of buffs and nerfs though and I think you guys got it right. He's balanced. He's not OP though, which is what some people want. A rework may make Voli more popular for awhile but I don't think it's the best thing for him in the long run. You're pretty much throwing all the good work you guys did down the tubes. You'll end up going through the whole same song and dance just to get people to notice him again. I think it's a bad idea and I beg you to leave him alone. Let him be and he will find his following.