Some simple Volibear playability thingies

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Is Not Gay

Senior Member

12-19-2012

I think Volibear is already strong, and for the most part relatively misunderstood and underestimated. I'm not against buffs for him, but I think it would be VERY EASY to make Volibear extremely OP with just a few small buffs. All I want is for the balance team to tread carefully here


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L1ON

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight of Dusk View Post
Yeah I mentioned something similar before. It would be AMAZING! Part of why I liked surge on occasion on him. ...Especially with a Lulu hanging around.

"CHO'GATH, GET OUT OF MY WAY!"

His W pretty much has to lose power anyway if he is to get something good in the way of damage. I am totally in support of giving him the BEHOLD, MY TRUE FORM treatment to make up for the loss.
He needs to grow in size somehow. HE NEEDS IT. Giant bear is just too glorious.


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Isysar

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Is Not Gay View Post
I think Volibear is already strong, and for the most part relatively misunderstood and underestimated. I'm not against buffs for him, but I think it would be VERY EASY to make Volibear extremely OP with just a few small buffs. All I want is for the balance team to tread carefully here
^ This.

Also, removing the fear (or making E his ult) really hurts his jungling capability. It also hurts his very unique mechanic of being able to hard engage on champions top lane when they have a huge minion wave. He ignores the minion way. Since the removal of Tough Skin effecting minion damage and Indominatable, minions are NOT ignorable early game anymore. But they ARE ignorable to Volibear b/c of his fear.


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Isysar

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by L1ÍN View Post
He needs to grow in size somehow. HE NEEDS IT. Giant bear is just too glorious.
This is easy. Make him get bigger when he ults. I'm fine with that.


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ShatteredIce

Member

12-19-2012

From my current experience playing him top, many times I felt that I became very weak in sustained fights, if I had my ult up I was at a pretty good spot, but otherwise, all I seemed to do was smack ppl in the face for somewhat lackluster results. Regardless, he's one of my favorite champions and is still passable though not quite optimal perhaps in my opinion. I'm not quite sure what to change about him, but I'd say the ultimate animation is definitely a place of interest for changes.

I do miss Ionic Spark though, was a great build option for him and Shen.


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Cyraknoss

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Would you give up Volibears E ability for something that offered a shield or increased defense values? Perhaps make it like Warwicks AS howl, but increase defenses (obviously be a reduced amount to allies). That way he has something to help his take a few hits while he charges in face first, and his jungle doesn't completely suffer by removing the creep fear.

The main problem I find for Voli is that he has ways to get to a lot of enemies that can increase the gap (which is made up for by the MS increase towards champs), but he requires items to be able to take the damage that comes with running in face first. Other champs that I can think of (shen/riven/olaf) all have a way to lower their damage intake when they charge forward, which gives them the option to close the gap without being murdered by the enemy team.
A defensive steroid would fix the jungle clearing problem created by taking away his minion fear but it would still make him overall a weaker jungler and top laner. Even with alacrity swift boots and flash Q out of a bush the slow from E still accounts for about 40% of my successful flips by slowing down the quicker champions just enough to catch them. Besides Voli's passive is enough of a defensive steroid, you get 30%hp back at a rate that makes Mundo jealous and worst case scenario you eat an ignite to force you to retreat, an ignite that would have otherwise gone to someone far squishier and more prone to death than you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Is Not Gay View Post
I think Volibear is already strong, and for the most part relatively misunderstood and underestimated. I'm not against buffs for him, but I think it would be VERY EASY to make Volibear extremely OP with just a few small buffs. All I want is for the balance team to tread carefully here
This, very much this. The majority of the problems found in this thread stem from improper builds, or attempts to take Volibear into a place he's not suited to. I used to have the exact same problem and thought he was a bit underwhelming during s2 when I just couldn't find the right spot for him. In s3 he's no better top or support but he's a very strong jungler and any proposed tweaks are either going to make his top/support become ridiculous and eliminate jungle, eliminate jungle while solving nothing for top/support, or it wont help either of those but the few of us who've found that bears and woods go together will absolutely stomp face and rocket to a stupidly high elo before the nerf hammer comes down and Voli ends up back where he started.


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Knight of Dusk

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
I think Volibear is already strong, and for the most part relatively misunderstood and underestimated. I'm not against buffs for him, but I think it would be VERY EASY to make Volibear extremely OP with just a few small buffs. All I want is for the balance team to tread carefully here
His kit is strong mid-game ish, I'll give you that, if he is well stocked on gold. It certainly has potential to become EXTREMELY OP with the wrong buffs, I'm with you there. But late game currently? TERRIBLE. You better pray the game doesn't go there because your impact is minimal at best.

Early game... he can't trade as much as others so he can have a hard time, but this isn't an enormous deal, you just got to pick your battles well. It could use some looking into, but it's not the biggest issue because you still have times when you want him in top lane, he does very well against Yorick for example since he can nullify the minions.

But at the same time due to the nature of frenzy + passive early on, if he is in a good match up, then he DOMINATES if he starts doing well. Morello fears this about him. Every trade, his frenzy gets stronger. You'll die against him eventually, and you can't do anything about it except for hugging your turret as he farms up and gets even stronger. This is slightly less likely now though since he can't buy Ionic (bye bye D:) or Wit's End as early to even further the gap, but it's still there to some degree.

Overall, he did okay S2, but with the removal of Ionic he can farm much less efficiently and his previous poor scaling damage is even less now, by a huge margin. So he falls off even quicker making his mid game even feel weak towards the latter half, IMO. Maybe I'm having problems adjusting, but this is how I feel.

I would never say he is strong. Not now. He can perform okay, but that's it.


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FrankyCentaur

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Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volty View Post
Yeah, totally not committed to dropping the E skill, was just an idea.

Volibear feels workable in either top or jungle right now, or is at least close to it. Solving his scaling / itemization might be all he needs for top to become strong.
But he's not- he gets pooped on by most champions. He doesn't have enough damage, his cooldowns are long, hes tanky- yes- but he is easily kited.

He should get some tenacity while in Q, which would help a ton.

You should give him a Jayce-like W (Electric Field) when he has his ult on, along with the chain lightning already.

His bite needs a shorter cooldown and a longer range. I think those things can really fix him.


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Knight of Dusk

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyraknoss View Post
This, very much this. The majority of the problems found in this thread stem from improper builds, or attempts to take Volibear into a place he's not suited to. I used to have the exact same problem and thought he was a bit underwhelming during s2 when I just couldn't find the right spot for him. In s3 he's no better top or support but he's a very strong jungler and any proposed tweaks are either going to make his top/support become ridiculous and eliminate jungle, eliminate jungle while solving nothing for top/support, or it wont help either of those but the few of us who've found that bears and woods go together will absolutely stomp face and rocket to a stupidly high elo before the nerf hammer comes down and Voli ends up back where he started.
'
I like where he is in the jungle today more or less, but I haven't really felt he was strong in it. Got any tips?


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Cyraknoss

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight of Dusk View Post
His kit is strong mid-game ish, I'll give you that, if he is well stocked on gold. It certainly has potential to become EXTREMELY OP with the wrong buffs, I'm with you there. But late game currently? TERRIBLE. You better pray the game doesn't go there because your impact is minimal at best.

Early game... he can't trade as much as others so he can have a hard time, but this isn't an enormous deal, you just got to pick your battles well. It could use some looking into, but it's not the biggest issue because you still have times when you want him in top lane, he does very well against Yorick for example since he can nullify the minions.

But at the same time due to the nature of frenzy + passive early on, if he is in a good match up, then he DOMINATES if he starts doing well. Morello fears this about him. Every trade, his frenzy gets stronger. You'll die against him eventually, and you can't do anything about it except for hugging your turret as he farms up and gets even stronger. This is slightly less likely now though since he can't buy Ionic (bye bye D or Wit's End as early to even further the gap, but it's still there to some degree.

Overall, he did okay S2, but with the removal of Ionic he can farm much less efficiently and his previous poor scaling damage is even less now, by a huge margin. So he falls off even quicker making his mid game even feel weak towards the latter half, IMO. Maybe I'm having problems adjusting, but this is how I feel.

I would never say he is strong. Not now. He can perform okay, but that's it.
The only time I find Voli to be actively weak is early game when I have yet to get any health items. I know from past experience that the effect is amplified in lane making him feel much worse than his current jungle. His late game just gets better the longer it goes and more farm you're allowed, passive and W scaling on health is wonderful, and with new randuins, as a late game option along with the neccessary funzies Rylais as a final item late game Volibear is just as scary and impossible to fight as 30 minute gravy zone Volibear.

Quote:
But he's not- he gets pooped on by most champions. He doesn't have enough damage, his cooldowns are long, hes tanky- yes- but he is easily kited.

He should get some tenacity while in Q, which would help a ton.

You should give him a Jayce-like W (Electric Field) when he has his ult on, along with the chain lightning already.

His bite needs a shorter cooldown and a longer range. I think those things can really fix him.
This would cause me to rocket into the 2k elo range in less than 2 weeks even accepting the required minimum game time, queue time, and possibility of trolls. Buffs to Volibear have to be razor thin to avoid him being absolutely insane in the jungle.

Quote:
I like where he is in the jungle today more or less, but I haven't really felt he was strong in it. Got any tips?
9/21/0 masteries, AS reds, %hp yellow, %hp quints, CDR blues. W>E>Q first pickups and stack in that order. Under no circumstances attempt a lvl 2 gank, instead inform whoever is on your red side that they're getting a gank at about 4 minutes and to be ready. Start machete & 5 pots, first back grab spirit stone, if your gank was a success and you got the kill grab boots too. farm and gank untill you can get giants belt, then back for it. Return to farming and ganking till your camps are secure and you've got a chance to go back with more than enough for ancient golem. Once golem is done build swift boots and immediately upgrade with alacrity. Farm and gank for warmogs, if you need to back before you can flat grab warmogs be sure it's when you can get the giants belt atleast. You'll rarely have a chance to go beyond those 3 items but I suggest Randuins for item 4 if you're stuck against a stubborn and slippery enemy.

As for play, be sure you've got room to run on your ganks, if you start when they're close to their tower you're just going to fail and waste your time. If you're almost up to someone popping E will instantly net you a flip, this is always worth while as you're not so much the one in need of kills. getting low kills and enormous assists on jungle voli is perfectly viable. When you ult do it after you've engaged, so generally after you Q+E to catch someone, then ult, you'll generally gain 3rd stack of w on first hit of ult so it maximizes potential. If their ADC is slippery swap to attacking anyone that will trade with you in a teamfight, your ult does 2604 per person with just the above build at lvl 18 and it's jump range is long enough that if they're involved in the teamfight they will be hit by it. Feel free to drop W as part of your opening combo worst case scenario they get away with almost no hp and are not a factor for the next 20 seconds.