Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.


PSA: stop buying LW on ad carries if Noone but the tank has armor.

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.


Senior Member



The windows he uses for attack time are off.
"Therefore, I will include three attack windows for calculations: 2 seconds (poking), 5 seconds (brief focusing), and 10 seconds (extended duels)."

Poking is less than a second.
2 seconds is brief focusing.
5 seconds is a duel. Or most of a team fight.
15 seconds is the entire team fight from start to end.

If an AD carry is attacking something for 5 seconds, it should die. It's also more beneficial to have a lower attack speed (given the same DPS, of course), because time spent attacking is time not spent moving.

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.


Senior Member


Yah, and the LW has an extra dorans blade in its calculations and that is only for 3 items not a full build. There are a hundred reasons why that could be a less than ideal calculation. You can fuzz on the specifics but it is a solid argument for situational use... Which is the original point...

If you are getting LW on Kogmaw your a fool.

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.


Senior Member


This is not a philosophical discussion, there are equations for a reason and the whole debate needs to be in a spreadsheet.

That said, both of these items are for use against armored targets, ie tanks & bruisers. Unless a carry has decided to build tanky they usually die in a split second if they are caught in the open anyways. 1-2 AA + a nuke from your AP = gg enemy carry.


I was bored and ran this all through a spreadsheet based on kog'maw's auto attacks at lvl 18 with standard build items, (2x doran, boots, IE, PD) and compared adding a BC vs LW.


Generally, on a target with <155 armor BC is better than LW over a 5 second engagement.


I chose 5 seconds because in 5 seconds is enough time to do ~2,000 AA damage to a target taking into account armor & crit chance.

I used kog'maw as my AD example because he is my AD of choice did not add in W active damage which benefits heavily from BC giving extra hits in longer fights due to + asp.

Assumed +30% asp from Q being lvl 5 at lvl 18.
Used Kog's base ASP & + asp per level (varies by champion)

As my example target I used a Wukong with +flat armor yellows, Atmongs, Wiggles, Triforce.

This example Wukong had 164 armor at lvl 18 and over 5 seconds LW did more damage.

Messing around with fight duration, at 10 seconds the break even is 165 armor vs 155 armor at 5 seconds
Duration of 3 seconds the break even is 82 armor since the initial hits on a BC do considerably less due to needing multiple hits to get full stack.

Interesting things to consider:

In this specific use case:
3 second fight = 5 attacks for each combo
5 second fight = 8 LW and 9 BC attacks
10 second fight = 17 LW attacks and 19 BC attacks

I feel like a 5 second fight sounded right on the surface but when cosnidering the number of attacks the 3 sec encounter seems much more "actual". landing 8-9 hits on a target seems excessive unless it is a tank and I am the only person hitting them. I feel like most carries die in 2-3 hits and bruisers usually get hit byt the first barrage of AP dmg.

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.


Senior Member


If an enemy jumps on you, wouldn't Black Cleaver help your bruiser peel them off faster?