PSA: stop buying LW on ad carries if Noone but the tank has armor.

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corallein

Senior Member

06-05-2012

The windows he uses for attack time are off.
"Therefore, I will include three attack windows for calculations: 2 seconds (poking), 5 seconds (brief focusing), and 10 seconds (extended duels)."

Poking is less than a second.
2 seconds is brief focusing.
5 seconds is a duel. Or most of a team fight.
15 seconds is the entire team fight from start to end.

If an AD carry is attacking something for 5 seconds, it should die. It's also more beneficial to have a lower attack speed (given the same DPS, of course), because time spent attacking is time not spent moving.


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SodiumAzide

Senior Member

06-05-2012

Yah, and the LW has an extra dorans blade in its calculations and that is only for 3 items not a full build. There are a hundred reasons why that could be a less than ideal calculation. You can fuzz on the specifics but it is a solid argument for situational use... Which is the original point...

If you are getting LW on Kogmaw your a fool.


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xCry0x

Senior Member

06-06-2012

This is not a philosophical discussion, there are equations for a reason and the whole debate needs to be in a spreadsheet.

That said, both of these items are for use against armored targets, ie tanks & bruisers. Unless a carry has decided to build tanky they usually die in a split second if they are caught in the open anyways. 1-2 AA + a nuke from your AP = gg enemy carry.

-edit-

I was bored and ran this all through a spreadsheet based on kog'maw's auto attacks at lvl 18 with standard build items, (2x doran, boots, IE, PD) and compared adding a BC vs LW.

TLDR;

Generally, on a target with <155 armor BC is better than LW over a 5 second engagement.

Longer:

I chose 5 seconds because in 5 seconds is enough time to do ~2,000 AA damage to a target taking into account armor & crit chance.

I used kog'maw as my AD example because he is my AD of choice did not add in W active damage which benefits heavily from BC giving extra hits in longer fights due to + asp.

Assumed +30% asp from Q being lvl 5 at lvl 18.
Used Kog's base ASP & + asp per level (varies by champion)

As my example target I used a Wukong with +flat armor yellows, Atmongs, Wiggles, Triforce.

This example Wukong had 164 armor at lvl 18 and over 5 seconds LW did more damage.

Messing around with fight duration, at 10 seconds the break even is 165 armor vs 155 armor at 5 seconds
Duration of 3 seconds the break even is 82 armor since the initial hits on a BC do considerably less due to needing multiple hits to get full stack.

Interesting things to consider:

In this specific use case:
3 second fight = 5 attacks for each combo
5 second fight = 8 LW and 9 BC attacks
10 second fight = 17 LW attacks and 19 BC attacks

I feel like a 5 second fight sounded right on the surface but when cosnidering the number of attacks the 3 sec encounter seems much more "actual". landing 8-9 hits on a target seems excessive unless it is a tank and I am the only person hitting them. I feel like most carries die in 2-3 hits and bruisers usually get hit byt the first barrage of AP dmg.


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jmlinden7

Senior Member

06-06-2012

If an enemy jumps on you, wouldn't Black Cleaver help your bruiser peel them off faster?


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