@Morello, can we talk about Urgot?

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TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Don't get me wrong, I think Urgot's ultimate allows him to play a very unique role in teamfights, threatening any squishy who stays close enough to deal damage with an instant beatdown by the rest of your team. The trouble is, once again, range. They nerfed it from like 700 to around 550 I think. This has the effect of forcing you into range of the enemy team's damage just to swap positions with an enemy who can get back to where they were in about a second and a half, while you continue to get beat on, because Urgot has no escapes of his own. Because of this, it currently lacks synergy with his kit, as it forces you to do exactly what you shouldn't be doing as Urgot, and for no real benefit.
Now, adding in that AoE DoT on swap would at least allow you to better fill the role of a Disruptor, rather than a bloated pus-filled Pinata. But the range is absolutely critical in making it an effective pulling tactic.
One thing that irks me about his kit is that Corrosive Charge reveals where it hits, like say in brush, but it doesn't reveal champions afflicted by the debuff? But it does give you a missile lock? Even if you had the range on your Acid Hunter back, what the heck good does it do to be able to lock onto an enemy if you can't see them to target them?


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Ganelon

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Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastBaron88 View Post
One thing that irks me about his kit is that Corrosive Charge reveals where it hits, like say in brush, but it doesn't reveal champions afflicted by the debuff? But it does give you a missile lock? Even if you had the range on your Acid Hunter back, what the heck good does it do to be able to lock onto an enemy if you can't see them to target them?
This actually doesn't bother me at all. The only information you strictly need is whether or not a target was hit by Corrosive Charge, which it conveniently provides for you immediately upon landing. Acid Hunters will always path directly onto whoever you hit even if you have no vision to the target, which makes predicting where they're going to be 1.2-2 seconds from then very easy to do, at least with the generous lock-on radius that it has. If you just drop a bomb, see who it hit, and then shoot an Acid Hunter immediately, it'll turn in midair and point you towards where you need to aim next. Even if it didn't do that, though, the default reaction to being tagged is running as far away as possible, so predictions are fairly easy to perform blind, too.

Regarding the ultimate, I don't mind it at all, but the complete lack of synergy with his Q and E, which together make up a far more significant chunk of his gameplay, makes it hard for me to really care about it either. I don't need it, nor do I really need his W, to play Urgot the way I want to. Acid Hunter's range is quite simply the last thing that should ever have been changed, and in my opinion, the ultimate and shield should have been among the first.


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Draginath

Senior Member

11-14-2012

I think the Terror capacitor needs something so that it can work better with his Ultimate and kit as a whole. The base shield is a bit weak, especially since it has an AP ratio (and the only one with an AP ratio in his kit). Terror capacitor should be that ability that makes Urgot a fighter.

A large part of his play requires him to be in near melee range but he's not really tanky enough to survive there. Maybe an AD ratio would be more appropriate or a ratio based on armor or health.


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Ganelon

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Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draginath View Post
I think the Terror capacitor needs something so that it can work better with his Ultimate and kit as a whole. The base shield is a bit weak, especially since it has an AP ratio (and the only one with an AP ratio in his kit). Terror capacitor should be that ability that makes Urgot a fighter.

A large part of his play requires him to be in near melee range but he's not really tanky enough to survive there. Maybe an AD ratio would be more appropriate or a ratio based on armor or health.
I couldn't disagree more about improving Urgot's close-range gameplay, but I heard an interesting idea regarding Terror Capacitor a long time ago that I might as well echo here: Make it fear in an AoE when broken by damage. It provides legitimate synergy with his ultimate and helps push enemy champions back to a safe distance while kiting, which is pretty damn important when he's so vulnerable to gap closers.

As far as an addition to my original idea about making Acid Hunter's range scale up with ranks in Corrosive Charge, I rather like it. If the fear starts out especially weak, it'll be nothing more than a minor interrupt for the long-range damage Urgots but a potent defensive tool with built in hard CC for the tanking ones. The biggest concern is, of course, making both abilities scale differently so that Urgot doesn't get the best of both worlds at level 18, so health scaling on the shield as opposed to AD would be far easier to balance... not that Urgot's late game has ever been too strong, but I'd rather tread carefully.


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TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Meh. Because of his passive and natural tankiness (this is an important part of bullying because it makes it harder to burst him and move on), it is not an aspect that can simply be ignored, even if you are advocating ranged harass. Urgot has no escapes, only tankiness and harass. This forces enemies to commit to killing him, which frees up your team to do damage, whereas being ignored lets you rain damage on their carry. Hurting Urgot's ability to tank damage in effect hurts his ability to harass, as he would just be instagibbed. You can't really kite with him because of his slow MS.
I do kinda like the idea of a fear on Terror Capacitor, mostly just because the name sounds like it is an ability that should fear. Though I think it would make more sense for it to be on activation. An Urgot with a broken shield is much less scary after all.


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Ganelon

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Senior Member

11-15-2012

I think the passive does a fine job on its own of making Urgot an anti-carry regardless of how it's used. With his old lock-on range, it was impossible to stay in a fight without being constantly tagged by it once you got hit by the initial Corrosive Charge, so not only did you have to face the reality of taking more damage than you were likely prepared to (as a carry, anyways), but you wouldn't even be able to deal it back to one of Urgot's allies effectively if you tried to ignore him. As an ability that promotes tanking, it's far too ineffective on anything beyond two targets, which tends to be too few to keep you alive with only a short defensive buff and a weak shield working for you otherwise.

Personally, the only times I've had trouble keeping my distance from the enemy team in a 5v5 is when my team decides to break formation and run away at the start of the encounter, leaving my slow-moving posterior fully exposed as I try in vain to slow down five enemy champions using only one single target ability. Normally, what happens is I tag someone important with Corrosive Charge, start firing off Acid Hunters, and they retreat behind their allies far enough that, were I to chase them, I'd be putting myself in danger to do so. At this point I just default to the closest, safest enemy until Corrosive Charge comes off cooldown again. During no point of this exchange do I ever find that swapping positions with an enemy is something I want to do, unless they happen to be a tanky DPS/assassin who has decided to target someone behind me, at which point I can put them back over on their team's side and myself deeper into a position of safety. The 5 seconds of armor and MR the ability provides is nothing more than a consolation prize for doing something so suicidal that nobody playing Urgot for his range is ever going to use it unless the fight is so blatantly one-sided that nothing they could do would even be able to threaten them.

Also, regarding the shield, I prefer fearing when broken because it would be a trigger that occurs regardless of CC, yet one that could be predicted and avoided by any enemy who would rather maintain control of their character instead of continuing to damage Urgot. Something like that would punish the thoughtless "dash in, stun, start swinging" gameplay of a lot of bruisers and give people a good reason to leave your shield unbroken, which of course means more time for you to abuse its fairly potent on-hit slow. The simple fact of knowing that breaking Urgot's shield will deny you the ability to immediately start damaging his health will make attacking him in melee range a much less desirable idea, and like I said, we're more than capable of keeping the fear incredibly weak at low ranks of the skill to force Urgot players into one role or another rather than giving them the benefits of both for a majority of the game.


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Ganelon

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Senior Member

11-16-2012

I could talk about Urgot for months. In fact, I have been.

Bump.


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TenDz

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Bump, still an issue


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Ganelon

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Senior Member

11-18-2012

Bumping again, this time with original content to back it up. This was my first and only skin suggestion for Urgot, made way back around the time he was released.

Attachment 560315


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2pudge1cup

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Senior Member

11-18-2012

for some reason i feel like wiht s3 items he'll become a top lane counterpick champ kinda like teemo only wihtout being as annoying.