@Morello, can we talk about Urgot?

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Steven Deschain

Senior Member

09-28-2012

Why do all of you futilely cling to the hope that urgot can be buffed back into "viability". He will NEVER be recognized as a viable champion because he was NEVER played. He was a pick or ban in tournaments and 2k elo, which are less than 1% of all games played, this does not count as being accepted.

He IS viable, but none of you are willing to actually play him and analyze him to actually see what they changed. All that's happened is he can't siege people out of exp range on their turrets, that's it. If you try to engage on urgot, it doesn't matter what combo of ranged carry or support you use, you will lose by attrition because of one simple fact.

Urgot can build tanky while INCREASING damage output. Be thankful they allow him to work at all, because allowing urgot to build a glacial shroud and get more damage a B.F. sword on a graves but with 45 armor is just ridiculous. Seriously try him sometimes he's perfectly fine >.>


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ganelon

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

09-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by akjdkajdlkfj View Post
Urgot can build tanky while INCREASING damage output. Be thankful they allow him to work at all, because allowing urgot to build a glacial shroud and get more damage a B.F. sword on a graves but with 45 armor is just ridiculous. Seriously try him sometimes he's perfectly fine >.>
  1. You seem to be insinuating that the mana-to-damage scaling from Manamune is one of Urgot's abilities and not an item passive that any AD carry is able to stack at will, should they choose to.
  2. 2% of 425 mana is 8.5 AD. That's the bonus that Glacial Shroud provides by itself, after you build a Manamune.
  3. Urgot's selling point has always been his range, and there are plenty of people who would gladly sacrifice his tanking ability to get it back. The ability to take damage alone does not make a champion fun or interesting to play.
You're probably a troll anyways, but whatever. This took me like 10 minutes.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Steven Deschain

Senior Member

09-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
  1. You seem to be insinuating that the mana-to-damage scaling from Manamune is one of Urgot's abilities and not an item passive that any AD carry is able to stack at will, should they choose to.
  2. 2% of 425 mana is 8.5 AD. That's the bonus that Glacial Shroud provides by itself, after you build a Manamune.
  3. Urgot's selling point has always been his range, and there are plenty of people who would gladly sacrifice his tanking ability to get it back. The ability to take damage alone does not make a champion fun or interesting to play.
You're probably a troll anyways, but whatever. This took me like 10 minutes.
Not what I said at all. Here's how urgot works.

You land E, and you can get 2 total locked on acid hunters, with bonus damage from E armor shred.

When you get brutalizer, or glacial shroud, whichever you build first, you can then get 3 total locked on acid hunters during the E debuff.

When you get both, upgrading to frozen heart gives you FOUR locked on acid hunters, and before the cooldown nerfs to E he could constantly spam locked on acid hunters with only a .7 delay to the next E. Not to mention his shield is up pretty much 24/7 unless under intense focus.

So yes, by building frozen heart you are not only increasing his armor but his damage output exponentially in the form of doubling the amount of missiles he can fire in one E. Oh yeah? You want range in exchange for tankiness? Go play Xerath.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ganelon

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

09-28-2012

Here's how any "normal" AD carry works:

You get a Phantom Dancer and whoa! Suddenly you're getting in more auto-attacks than you did previously. Your damage output is multiplied.

Please explain how this is different in any way from building cooldown reduction on any ability-based champion, aside from the fact that the cooldown reduction cap is significantly more restrictive. Is it because a CDR/Armor item exists? It isn't the Urgot player's fault that his only other damage stat (AD) scales terribly and all other CDR items are designed for AP champions. Give us a legitimately useful upgrade to the Brutalizer and see how many Urgots still build tanky - I won't be among them.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Steven Deschain

Senior Member

09-28-2012

Phantom dancer does not give you 99 armor. And frozen heart gives urgot 99 armor, and the same damage output increase as a phantom dancer, due to the unique interaction it has with his kit.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ganelon

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

09-28-2012

The interaction isn't unique at all. How is this a problem with Urgot but not Ryze, who literally does get damage as well as a damage multiplier from Frozen Heart? How is this even a problem in the first place when you're paying 2775g to improve your cooldown reduction with almost no benefit to your actual AD? If you have a problem with the total "stat value" of Frozen Heart, just say so and don't blame the champion who has literally no other viable options for building cooldown reduction. Like I said, I don't build it for the armor, I build it because AD caster itemization is utter **** right now and there's nothing I can do about it.

The damage increase isn't even close to Phantom Dancer anyways, seeing as how 20% cooldown reduction doesn't even come close to 55% AS and 30% crit chance. One of them is clearly designed to give tank stats while the other is purely offensive. This isn't a problem, it's just a mundane example of item diversity.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Steven Deschain

Senior Member

09-28-2012

If phantom dancer + IE is better, then why does urgot beat every single ad carry in the game 1v2 with any support with brutalizer + frozen heart? Phantom dancer is designed for squishies where frozen heart is designed for urgot and champs like you mentioned ryze, hecarim etc.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Shiralune

Senior Member

09-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Hey there,

I want to share my thoughts about Urgot to a greater extent, but I need to get more information - this could be a place where we nerfed too fast, or it was valid. Need to consult with live bros and analyze.

I'll come back to this!
You guys gutted his key feature a bit too hard.

Keep the charge CD nerf, but rebuff the range back so there's reward for hitting the grenade.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Shiralune

Senior Member

09-28-2012

bump.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Topbobdog

Senior Member

09-29-2012

Bump for snowman Urgot