Udyr: Is it viable to Jungle as Tiger?

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Hallucinate

Recruiter

08-22-2010

As thread points out, just wanted to ask is it viable/workable to Jungle as a tiger without any points in phoenix. Also if this was viable would it be better to get a Madreds Bloodrazer or work/rush towards a Blackcleaver (whilst initially buy cheap components of tanking items such as a randuins?


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neocow

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Senior Member

08-22-2010

It is, though most people ignore this fact.


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Polaritie

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Senior Member

08-22-2010

Its not so much Tiger as it is Turtle.


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DayInTheSun

Senior Member

08-22-2010

Jungling with phoenix is much faster.


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fELonius1

Senior Member

08-22-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by DayInTheSun View Post
Jungling with phoenix is much faster.
Depends on your starting item, really. You can jungle fine with tiger, but you will be severely gimping your ability to farm a lane quickly. If you're going tiger, you should avoid most items with on-hit damage effects (like a bloodrazor), since it will cut their effect to 1/3. If you want to jungle with tiger, start with a longsword and build it into a black cleaver. You will probably be spending most of your first few levels spamming turtle, but the extra damage from the longsword kinda offsets this.

tl;dr: if you like tiger, yes, it is viable to jungle with it.


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Covenant

Senior Member

08-22-2010

It's viable to jungle as Tiger. It's a more long-term build than Phoenix, but Phoenix's damage is pretty anemic versus enemy heroes, so it has merits. Tiger and Phoenix are both pretty lousy in a Laning situation, so I don't consider Phoenix's tiny AoE damage a real benefit to being in a lane. Sure, you'll kill a few guys a little faster for some extra gold, but you're probably getting harass-hit and losing health. Being in turtle can basically shut down Pantheon's spear spam, for example. That's a lot more potent.

Instead of killing multiple enemies at moderate speed you kill one enemy faster--this is actually better for killing the Golem and Lizard, you just need to make sure the tiny little micro-monsters don't kill you while you're doing it. I've never had a problem jungling as Tiger. It's harder to Lane with tiger, but Lane Udyr is all about Bear+Turtle anyway.

Your tiger hits do plenty of damage to the golem and you can kill them really fast later on with some attack items. Building towards Black Cleaver gets you a good armor-removing item that'll speed up a lot of kills later.

But the most important levels for a jungler are levels 1-5, which you can do perfectly well as Tiger, and come out of the lane more able to gank someone than a Phoenix build--which is the reason you'd go Tiger in the first place.

The only other piece of importance is the Dragon. There's several good builds that don't build razor first (Heart of Gold is good for everyone, ganker OR tanker) and still survive, so don't consider Razor essential for this.

Furthermore, even if staying in Tiger stance doesn't work well with Razor, your Turtle stance does, and you should be in turtle quite a bit anyway--Tiger's great for lots of stuff, but soloing the dragon is probably better via Turtle spam unless you've got both buffs (in which case tiger+turtle will do more damage to a single target than phoenix+turtle). The lifesteal and manasteal of being in turtle is hugely effective at keeping your stance-dancing going, which is more valuable than Phoenix or Tiger for killing a big monster early on.


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Hallucinate

Recruiter

08-23-2010

More replies/advice appreciated!


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ScrumRuck

Member

08-23-2010

I get Dorans shield hpot.

ogre -wolves -banshees -little golems -wolves -lizard.

skill this turtle-tiger-turtle-bear-turtle-tiger-turtle-tiger

This is personal preference as I find myself needing to set up ganks around level 4 or 5 in alot of situations, which is quite successful between bear and ghost.

This is NOT the fastest way to level or jungle. It is just the way i do it. It helps me to be ready to gank and such


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7orus

Member

08-23-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by fELoniusz View Post
If you're going tiger, you should avoid most items with on-hit damage effects (like a bloodrazor), since it will cut their effect to 1/3.
Can you explain this statement? I was under the impression that tiger stance's triple swing was a cosmetic replacement of a single auto attack, and that the real passive benefit to tiger stance was an increased attack speed. The tooltip stating that only the first swing procs on hit effects only refers to the triple swing. Thus, weapons with on hit effects are more effective in tiger, not less.


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ScrumRuck

Member

08-23-2010

Quote:
Can you explain this statement? I was under the impression that tiger stance's triple swing was a cosmetic replacement of a single auto attack, and that the real passive benefit to tiger stance was an increased attack speed. The tooltip stating that only the first swing procs on hit effects only refers to the triple swing. Thus, weapons with on hit effects are more effective in tiger, not less.
I was under this impression too, but I think on hit effects are immediately counted into your damage, so it would 1/3 that too.

100 AD
+500 Madreds
= 200 damage on first hit.

I think this is how it works


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