AD vs. AP Evelynn.

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Nenesse

Senior Member

08-22-2010

I figure that aside from Ezreal, nobody can make use of a Sheen quite as easily as Evelynn. Just mash your Q and it'll proc as often as it's allowed to and not a bit less. This basically means that a Lich Bane in your hands will let you keep up with the big boys when it comes to DPS, so long as you're reasonably fed.

My question: Does AD Evelynn kill harder than AP Evelynn?

You get a .28 ratio on your Hate Spike, which means you get your full AP in damage every ~3 seconds. However, I have seen Evelynn's attack speed break 2.1 after she activates her ult, which is basically insane, and that's on top of Triforce procs. I don't quite know how to theorycraft this and I don't have the tools to simply measure how fast I can burst someone from full health to zero using either build. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

And I have another question.

What moron developed Evelynn thinking she was going to be good? She has a melee stun, a 400ish damage nuke with a 1 to 1 AP ratio, and a Q that doesn't do anything but proc your Sheen. What part of this is an "assassin" character? Evelynn is supposed to be able to burst, so where the hell are her burst spells? The only way to make Evelynn burst is by stacking items on her that are so gnarly they would make ANYONE able to burst.

Clearly she was designed with the idea that being invisible is worth something. Well, it isn't. If someone picks up an oracle while you're still in the laning phase, then you need to switch lanes ASAP because you have no laning abilities whatsoever. True, oracle doesn't completely shut you down in that you can still hurt people just fine, but her abilities are plain terrible if she doesn't have the element of surprise.


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Lorifel

Senior Member

08-22-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nenesse View Post
I figure that aside from Ezreal, nobody can make use of a Sheen quite as easily as Evelynn. Just mash your Q and it'll proc as often as it's allowed to and not a bit less. This basically means that a Lich Bane in your hands will let you keep up with the big boys when it comes to DPS, so long as you're reasonably fed.

My question: Does AD Evelynn kill harder than AP Evelynn?
Well, I was also interedted in this and created a couple of builds at Leaguecraft. AD build was based on Triniti Force + Black Cleaver (yay for armour reduction from Ravage + Cleaver!). AP build was based upon Rylai's + Lich Bane + etc. Both had roughly the same cost and about the same survivability (actually the AP build was a bit cheaper and more diurable).

Then I calculated DPS from 3 sources: spells, autoattacks and Trinity/LichBane procs. Here are the results:

____________________AP build _______ Hybrid build
Spell damage / 5 sec ____1888 ____________ 937
Physical damage/5 sec ___ 716 __________ 1834
Trini/LB * 2 _____________ 724 ___________ 561
Totals ________________ 3328 __________ 3332

And here is the same data with Eve's Ultimate activated:

With Ultimate ________ AP build _______ Hybrid build
Spell damage / 5 sec ____1888 ____________ 937
Physical damage/5 sec __1000 ___________ 2500
Trini/LB * 2 ____________ 724 ____________ 561
Totals ________________3612 ___________ 3998

As you can see the DPS was higher on the AD (Hybrid) build when Evelynn's Ultimate was on, but I find spell damage significantly more effective on Evelynn. Because her targets usually have more armour then MR and it is easier for her to land nukes than hits.

All in all I find AP build to be a more viable option. As for a pure AD build I think it has serious issues with having zero survivability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nenesse View Post
She has a melee stun, a 400ish damage nuke with a 1 to 1 AP ratio, and a Q that doesn't do anything but proc your Sheen.
Her Q has following benefits and uses:

1) Can be triggered while running shoulder-to-shoulder with your victim. Autoattacking slows you down, casting spikes doesn't

2) Stunning two enemy champions instead of stunning one of them

3) Triggering Rylai's slow to forever slowdown runners or your pursuers

4) Triggering Sheen/Trinity/LichBane procs. Good for enemy towers/inhibitors too.

5) Farming


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biomorph

Senior Member

08-22-2010

Nice outlining Lorifel.
However if you are timing your abilities right you get get 3 procs in 5 seconds.
Activate ultimate and fire ravage just in time to aplly lich bane/tri force effect in your next auto attack. Apply hate spike to trigger lich bane again etc etc.
The reason I like AP over Hybrid is due to the higher instant burst which means that you burst - likely for a kill - and then get out. Standing around for 5 seconds can very well result in your own demise.
Timing your lich bane effects as mentioned above can give you two procs in two attacks and that results in massive - almost instant - burst damage.
It's one of those small details that can make a world of difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorifel View Post
Her Q has following benefits and uses:

1) Can be triggered while running shoulder-to-shoulder with your victim. Autoattacking slows you down, casting spikes doesn't

2) Stunning two enemy champions instead of stunning one of them

3) Triggering Rylai's slow to forever slowdown runners or your pursuers

4) Triggering Sheen/Trinity/LichBane procs. Good for enemy towers/inhibitors too.

5) Farming
I would like to add (which goes with most of your points):

6) Spammable, which I find many people fail to see the value of.

If you stack AP this skill will deal plenty damage especially low health targets will feel the pain.


Problem with AD eve is that you rely on (many) auto attacks and you really lack the survivability to do so. The issue is not so much how much damage you can do.
So I would advice you run AP and further, jungle from lvl 1-6 to overcome eve's problematic early lane phase.
Go for first gank at lvl 4 where you have 1 point in hate spike and stealth and 2 in ravage.
I have ganked or aided a gank so often at this point since noone is packing oracles/wards so no one expects you to pop out of nowhere and stun them at this point.


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Lorifel

Senior Member

08-22-2010

Thanks for your points, biomorph!
I believe I've seen your guide but can't locate it now with the search feature disabled...


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Jravolta

Senior Member

08-22-2010

Consider this build.

Catalyst
Guinsoo's Rageblade
Banshee's Veil
Sheen
Hextech Gunblade

The catalyst will keep you in the field forever early game, and the guinsoo's increases your all-around damage while making it easier to farm and 1v1. Banshee's Veil prevents Eve from getting utterly wrecked when she unstealths, Sheen procs nicely with Q and the Hextech Gunblade gives all the hybrid stats you need + an instant damage active that makes up for your lack of ability power. This is all assuming you farm well and don't get screwed because the enemy team knows how easy it is to make Evelynn suck.


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Chingmeister

Senior Member

08-22-2010

____________________AP build _______ Hybrid build_______Sunfirex5 Build
Spell damage / 5 sec ____1888 ____________ 937 __________1000 AoE + 850 ish
Physical damage/5 sec ___ 716 __________ 1834 ___________ 600
Trini/LB * 2 _____________ 724 ___________ 561 ____________ 0
Totals ________________ 3328 __________ 3332 ____________ 2450

Since magic damage is more effective, as long as you are hitting more than 1 target sunfire Eve does the most dps. 5x sunfires adds a tad more survivability too.

1v1 Sunfire Eve would kill either of the other Eves and leave the fight at 80%+ life.


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Lorifel

Senior Member

08-22-2010

Errr... perhaps. Looks well on paper. ^_^
I have to admit your figures do make sense. Of course you lack burst, or movement speed bonuses, or MR, but you still have your spells with their utility bonuses and huge amounts of armour, HP and AOE damage over time. And the cost of the build is not ridiculously high.

Perhaps I will try it sometime, although I am generally against "Sunfire Eve" approuch because of how "Cheap" it is. =P


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Nenesse

Senior Member

08-30-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chingmeister View Post
____________________AP build _______ Hybrid build_______Sunfirex5 Build
Spell damage / 5 sec ____1888 ____________ 937 __________1000 AoE + 850 ish
Physical damage/5 sec ___ 716 __________ 1834 ___________ 600
Trini/LB * 2 _____________ 724 ___________ 561 ____________ 0
Totals ________________ 3328 __________ 3332 ____________ 2450

Since magic damage is more effective, as long as you are hitting more than 1 target sunfire Eve does the most dps. 5x sunfires adds a tad more survivability too.

1v1 Sunfire Eve would kill either of the other Eves and leave the fight at 80%+ life.
Wait.

So basically, any character in the game with five Sunfire Capes is better than any possible Evelynn build.


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biomorph

Senior Member

08-30-2010

I've seen this before, both on Evelynn and especially tanks. It does have some merit in terms of being effective on players who do not know what is going on. The thing is that Sunfire effect does not have that long radius so the result is that they tend to get CC'ed nuked to a pulp. The other issue that all other abilities that scale either with AP or AD are at base level so you are in principle a sitting duck with a spiky skin.
The Sunfire strategy does not work in terms of being a fail safe strategy. So I say any character with 5 Sunfires is a suboptimal built character and needs to be reworked and reconsidered.
And the problems with numbers is that they tend to be based on best case scenarios and not real data.