Ciderhelm's impressions on Darius

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Alasdaire

Senior Member

05-27-2012

For folks who aren't familiar, Ciderhelm is a dedicated League caster and mentor, creating thoughtful and thorough champion guides and other similar goodies. He's dedicated years to games like this, and I thoroughly trust his opinion.

In a recent video, seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBaRC...eature=g-all-u

Ciderhelm concludes "This champion is not balanced, not a good addition to the game, and not fun for anyone other than the player currently using him." Can I get some community feedback on this one?

Update!

We've gotten some feedback from Ciderhelm himself, clarifying what he already expressed in the video. He argues specifically at the champion is toxic and unfun. You can read his comment below. I also want to ask a little respect for the man. This isn't a pissing contest over ELO. You can also respectfully disagree. But have some respect for the effort and energy that Ciderhelm puts into his work.

There's some solid discussion going on here, if you wade through the muck and grime. I ask, politely, that you guys keep it respectful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciderhelm View Post
I create videos and write guides for a living. I am among the very best in the field, that's why people know me. Most of the work I do involves understanding specific mechanics, and in the case of League of Legends, my work tends to be for specific champions. Here's a list of my current champion videos, which are far more mechanically accurate at release than the wiki:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=1587469

I normally don't take positions on the relative strength of a champion. However, I know League inside and out, and I know game design inside and out. Darius is, as Riot is fond of saying, a toxic influence.

The question isn't whether a team can shut him down. Sure, he has real weaknesses. The fact is that his design encourages and allows him to make the game significantly less enjoyable for his own team. It really doesn't matter how he plays at the top 1%, his impact is brutal and extremely easy to achieve across the entire spectrum of gameplay. If he can make the game less enjoyable for both his team and the opposing team, that is a really bad thing.

Keep in mind Eve isn't in her position because she destroyed plat games. She is in her position because she made the game considerably less fun at every level of play. And in that case, at least her teammates could still get the thrill of getting kills.
-Quote trimmed to just parts relevant to Darius


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Navlyn

Senior Member

05-27-2012

guessing he is another bronze player, just saying.

my win rate with Dairius players on my team currently is 0-4 I have NEVER won with that champion I have NEVER seen it go positive.

he's 1200, he doesn't understand the game I can go 30-0 with Sion in a 1200 game, doesn't mean the champion is broken means i'm playing him against people who don't know how to counter.

I understand he is a pubstomper but honestly you guys are getting old with your complaining, ofc another bad player (once again, he is bronze) complaining about the game, Darius has so many draw backs.
\

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/64385#history

1200 elo Opinion.

And seeing how this game is a game of "knowledge" i'm pretty sure he doesn't know the mechanics better than me, thanks.


I have a 94% win rate with Sion and Nidalee on my smurf guess why? no really, guess not because they're broken just because you guys are so bad that i'm able to roam around your unwarded map killing everyone.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

AntiSkillshot

Senior Member

05-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakey Mcgee View Post
guessing he is another bronze player, just saying.

my win rate with Dairius players on my team currently is 0-4 I have NEVER won with that champion I have NEVER seen it go positive.
And i'm highly sure he knows more of the mechinics of this game than you ever well. Mr. "I got a golden badge so other people's comments are invaild."


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

PorpoiseAlert

Member

05-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakey Mcgee View Post
guessing he is another bronze player, just saying.

my win rate with Dairius players on my team currently is 0-4 I have NEVER won with that champion I have NEVER seen it go positive.
Yeahhhh... you have no idea who he is.

Edit: Since you updated, I will update as well.

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/20471597#stats

You have no ranked games played as Darius. At all.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Daharon

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

05-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakey Mcgee View Post
guessing he is another bronze player, just saying.

my win rate with Dairius players on my team currently is 0-4 I have NEVER won with that champion I have NEVER seen it go positive.
I'm gonna assume you've never read his book or watched his videos.

Quoting Ciderhelm:

Quote:
First Impressions: What was Riot thinking? This champion is not balanced, not a good addition to the game, and not fun for anyone other than the player currently using him.

He's counterable in the same sense Tryndamere is. But he's far, far more threatening than Tryndamere.

Anyway, I don't have much else to add. This is bad game design, and I am saying that from the perspective of someone who's been playing him exclusively for several days (rather than someone who's been getting killed by him for several days).

I'll expand a bit: He is very strong against most melee champions. Having zero opportunity to outplay and go against a fed Darius is frustrating when you're playing against them.

His mechanics encourage not just taking kills, but taking multiple kills quickly even if allies could have gotten them. Playing w/ a Darius on your team deprives you of some enjoyment, but that's not the fault of the Darius player so much as the champion design that encourages the Darius player to take as many kills as possible. Even built heavily for tanking, he will perform wonderfully.

And in those situations where you shut down a Darius with crowd controls or just overpowering melee range damage, the Darius player themselves has no counterplay. This is because he's an all-in champion with no gap closers, no speed boosts, and no escapes.

In the end, either Darius is not having fun, or up to 9 other players in the match aren't having as much fun as they should be. The fact that he can -- and is encouraged by design to -- actively make the game less enjoyable for allies (especially AP/Ranged AD carries) just isn't good design.
EDIT:

Ok lets clear something up, because most of you stuck up "gold elo" players have too much skill and zero reading comprehension.

He's NOT saying that Darius is OP, he's saying that he's neither balanced or fun to play with or against. Just flatly flawed design.

Read carefully:

"In the end, either Darius is not having fun, or up to 9 other players in the match aren't having as much fun as they should be. The fact that he can -- and is encouraged by design to -- actively make the game less enjoyable for allies (especially AP/Ranged AD carries) just isn't good design. "

He was designed to make everyone's playing experience miserable but his, and when he's behind, everyone is having fun except him because of his lack of escapes - gap closers. Not once he said Darius is OP, and imbalanced doesn't always mean OP.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ur little sister

Senior Member

05-27-2012

I agree that he is bad design. He's a tank assassin, and I don't understand why anybody would make such a combination. All he needs to be even more horrid in design is a marker when his ult can kill, like Cho'Gath has.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Srey

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

05-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mipesuves View Post
And i'm highly sure he knows more of the mechinics of this game than you ever well.
Ciderhelm doesn't play ranked and is talking out of his ass. Did you even see his build? Yeah, no.

Edit: Since Mipesuves decided to post one of my games I thought I'd attach this for lulz. I have match streaks like this for tons of champs. Does that make them OP? Noooooope.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

AntiSkillshot

Senior Member

05-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phrxshn View Post
How to Gain Some Elo, Don't Ban Darius, Let the typical Idiotic FP pick Darius, Counter pick with Swain, Profit.

P.S - Ciderhelm is a Bronze Player
That knows more of the mechinics than you.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

WlSHMASTER

Senior Member

05-27-2012

He's not OP at all

In lane he loses to heavy sustain or heavy engage


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

AntiSkillshot

Senior Member

05-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Srey View Post
Ciderhelm doesn't play ranked and is talking out of his ass. Did you even see his build? Yeah, no.
More sounds like you are.

Oh, btw, 22/5/5 Darius.