Darius vs Garen

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Aellia

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Senior Member

05-27-2012

I imagine a fight between Garen and Darius would go something like this.

Friendly Garen versus hostile Darius.

Demacia!

Noxus!

An enemy has been slain!

An ally has been slain!


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Erronius

Senior Member

05-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerfidiousAlbion View Post
Garen would easily win in lane vs Darius because he has higher damage, is beefier and actually has sustain. Even in the event that Darius actually manages to hold his own in terms of damage, which is unlikely, Garen would still win due to sustain.

In terms of raw damage added early game Decimate < Judgement, Crippling Strike < Decisive Strike and Courage is a WAY better defensive steroid than Apprehend is an offensive steroid, and Apprehend's pull is useless against Garen because he'll just silence and spin, ending up winning the exchange. Darius's extremely potent passive will help even up the disparity in damage, but at best Darius will break even at which point Garen's passive will still win him the lane.
I've already tested my theory, right off the bat Darius takes control of the lane from Garen -beats him in exchanges while Garen slowly falls a little behind on CS as he sustains from his passive, slowly as Garen cs's and finishes out his armor/mr stack from W he begins to come out even in exchanges, and by mid game can handle Darius even though Darius is a full item ahead of him from the lane phase. Lane-phase garen doesn't die, but he doesn't come out ahead on CS either -Darius' early damage is far more impressive than Garen's, and Garen's W has a 30 second cooldown at rank 1, and if you're trying to match darius in damage you have to leave it at rank 1. That's a long time between skirmishes for you to wait and for him to farm if you want to break even health-wise, it's mid game that Garen pulls ahead of him and his tankiness wins over. Go do some math, include cooldowns, and you'll see that Darius can put the hurt on near-nonstop early game, while Garen is limited by very long cooldowns and a passive-play sustain skill that results in lost CS.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

05-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erronius View Post
Darius' passive is the most powerful passive in the game, it's gamebreakingly strong for a passive. I dont have a huge problem with his ult or his other skills -but that passive definitely puts him head and shoulders above the rest, especially since he can apply it in an aoe if he so chooses.
Darius' passive: Attacks and damaging spells add stacks that deal 12-36 +0.4 bonus AD magic damage over 5 seconds (or 2.4-7.2+0.08 bonus AD per second), stacks up to 5 times.

Twitch's passive: Attacks add stacks that deal 15-60 true damage over 6 seconds (or 2.5-10 per second), stacks up to 6 times.

Darius' passive hits 180 over 5, Twitch's passive hits 360 over 6, and Twitch's is true damage. In order for Darius' passive to beat Twitch's, accounting for just base MR he needs over 144-184 bonus AD. That's IF they build no MR. Also Twitch has ranged attacks, an execution skill that increases its damage based on his passive stacks, AND TWITCH HAS TWO STEROIDS, AS AND AD, ON TOP OF AoE AUTO ATTACKS.

Let's NOT exaggerate the power of Darius' acceptable passive.


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Erronius

Senior Member

05-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
Darius' passive: Attacks and damaging spells add stacks that deal 12-36 +0.4 bonus AD magic damage over 5 seconds (or 2.4-7.2+0.08 bonus AD per second), stacks up to 5 times.

Twitch's passive: Attacks add stacks that deal 15-60 true damage over 6 seconds (or 2.5-10 per second), stacks up to 6 times.

Darius' passive hits 180 over 5, Twitch's passive hits 360 over 6, and Twitch's is true damage. In order for Darius' passive to beat Twitch's, accounting for just base MR he needs over 144-184 bonus AD. That's IF they build no MR. Also Twitch has ranged attacks, an execution skill that increases its damage based on his passive stacks, AND TWITCH HAS TWO STEROIDS, AS AND AD, ON TOP OF AoE AUTO ATTACKS.

Let's NOT exaggerate the power of Darius' acceptable passive.
Twitch's passive has no AD scaling on it, and can only be applied to multiple champions through his ult (realistically he's not going to attack one person then switch to another, then switch to another etc etc) which has a reasonably long cooldown -darius' has a .4 AD ratio, and can be applied to multiples with ease, nearly nonstop with his basic AoE skill. Twitch is also very squishy with inherently low base stats and stat/per level and is ranged to boot, Darius has high base stats and good scaling and possesses a kit that is incredibly easy to pick up and do well with -twitch requires en entirely different level of skill to do well currently.

The issue is that on top of his rather high damage stemming from the rest of his kit, the passive adds far too much on top of him being naturally durable and having great damage ignoring the passive. His kit would function fantastically without the passive.. Think about it.

Also, the 180 over 5 number is ignoring the AD scaling.

A traditional tanky dps build can easily get him +100 to the damage of his passive:
http://leaguecraft.com/builder/dariu...00000000000000
This gets him exactly 107.6 damage added.


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Croanin

Senior Member

05-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerfidiousAlbion View Post
Garen would easily win in lane vs Darius because he has higher damage, is beefier and actually has sustain. Even in the event that Darius actually manages to hold his own in terms of damage, which is unlikely, Garen would still win due to sustain.

In terms of raw damage added early game Decimate < Judgement, Crippling Strike < Decisive Strike and Courage is a WAY better defensive steroid than Apprehend is an offensive steroid, and Apprehend's pull is useless against Garen because he'll just silence and spin, ending up winning the exchange. Darius's extremely potent passive will help even up the disparity in damage, but at best Darius will break even at which point Garen's passive will still win him the lane.
This, I've yet to get outlaned by Darius as Garen. I like to start Dorian's Shield something I rarely do just to take full advantage of Darius's lack of sustain, it also makes me bulkier so even if I dont completely destroy him in trades I'll regen faster and Darius is only burning mana. After a few Dorians Blades and a chain mail you can literally turret dive the guy at will.

Garen is considered one of the worst bruisers in the game due to what he brings to his team but he is still one of the most scary top lane bruisers to go against. The point of playing Garen is to get your self fed enough to still be a threat to the enemy even late game so your worth aiming buying your allies some time.

I personally hope they dont buff Garen simply because his last rounds of buffs made him fotm and most people are awful with him and get their builds from mobafire.


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Armaurahn

Senior Member

05-27-2012

from my personal game as garen vs darius it was some what even at first but when he grabbed his ulti he started doing a bit better than me, i could still kill him because i didn't have a delay on my ult but his damage was clearly better than mine, after building randuin's omen which i could afford since we traded a few kills his damage just wasn't enough to get me low enough to ult anymore, i would sit back to let my passive kick in and he'd try to keep it from turning on but even pulling me and slowing didn't do much cause of how well garen's kit is against cc, i could just hit him with silence and E my way out and chasing only hurt him, i saved my W to diminish his passive since i didn't have much magic resist and i was able to keep him at bay all game, of course he found his way to mid and bot lane to grab some kills, but we outplayed them as a whole and took the match, darius is good cause of his ult and only matters cause he can spam it if he kills, without that hes just another meh bruiser like garen, able to use his ult to make a kill but if it doesn't refresh his lack of strong cc or escapes makes him sub-par, garen doesn't have any real cc besides the silence but he is incredibly hard to pin down cause of his speed boost and cc breaking abilities


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Hidden Sniper

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Senior Member

05-27-2012

Plus Garen doesn't scale well at all into late game like Darius...


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K K0

Senior Member

05-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loquisfdom View Post
Garen's ultimate is more powerful against people stacking health - Darius' is more effective against people with resists. Garen would beat Darius in top lane, because he skirmishes as well if not better, is beefier, and his ultimate doesn't rely on several auto-attacks prior to dealing full damage.
So wrong.... It's a % of the opponents missing health not a % of there max health.


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Samyazza

Member

05-27-2012

IMO, they should nerf Darius, so kills would only reduce the cooldown on ult, not reset, same as with Katarina.

Then, they should buff Garen to make his ult get a cooldown reduction on kills as well.


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DM Lee

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Senior Member

05-27-2012

i play darius every game and have laned agains garen 3 times... altho darius has his passive and his ult... i always get outlaned by garen. while i have to go b for my hp he sits around grabbing exp while im popping ghost to attempt to keep my level around the same as his... so while garen misses cs and darius is farming garen as a direct result of hiding is gaining exp and his lane is being pushed making a serious gank opportunity for the garen's jungler... while you all theorize that darius is dealing serious amounts of damage to garen its those little things that make garen win eventually... plus most dont realize that everytime darius harrasses with his Q its like screaming "gank me im pushing instead of last hitting!" so even the little skirmish here or there is in garens favor even though darius obviously outdamages garen if he isnt silenced.

so try shiit out before you all start making random posts about how darius will always win agains garen.

p.s. - im a hard core darius fan. since release i have played him nonstop wins mostly with losses mixed in taking time only for food, bathrooms and sleep. im not a garen fan i like to stay in the fight not hit and run so for me to say that garen (least favorite champ) wins always to darius (favorite champ) is very difficult. and humbling.

~DM Lee


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