Absurd! Ridiculous! ill-placed! Preposterous!

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Axiom Prime

Senior Member

05-25-2012

Being able to play a Champion makes up about 10% of the skill needed to play this game, the other 90% is knowing how to play the game in general. You can know how to use Graves' abilities but that wont make you a better player, you get better at playing the game by actually playing people. Being put in an ever changing scenario where you cant predict what the other player(s) will actually do. Bots are for people without the skill to actually play the game. For casuals who dont want to play competitively.

Even if you lose a few games playing PVP you learn more about what actually works against other players and what doesn't. You wont learn that playing against Bots. In summary, your idea though moderately thought out will have little to no effect on the current player base.

When I buy a new champion that I plan to actually use I go into a bot game to figure out skill usage, then from there on out its PVP. And believe me, I do just fine.


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TheCowness

Senior Member

05-25-2012

Ten bot games? My goodness. That's nine too many to even consider this.

Personally, I think playing a champion for the first time has little to do with your performance. Once you hit summoner level 30 you should be learning roles, not champions. You can apply knowledge you gain from playing certain AD carries toward playing other AD carries, for instance. I agree with Riot's decision to prevent people from playing freeweek champions in ranked solo queue since that's not a place to play champions you're unfamiliar with, but I do not want Riot to restrict who I can and cannot play in normal games.

I'd be okay with this if you weren't talking about normal games; I'd gladly play a champion five times in Normal Classic/Co-op/Dominion to unlock him in solo queue ranked. But don't restrict what I can do in normal games.


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xXCrocmonXx

Member

05-25-2012

See look at that, OP, so many people telling you exactly what I said.

Your request - while good-hearted - is ridiculous. Buffing the bots to where it would be feasible would be such a waste of time because what you learn in bot matches is the prologue to the huge amounts you learn in PvP, like never push into a Blitz unless he's feeding and Tryndamere can turret dive like a beast. Bots NEVER dive, NEVER jungle, and honestly only synergize when both champs in the lane have stuns. Making them do that would invalidate PvP, which is the entire focus of the game in general.

Learn to play against people, and learn to be supportive of people playing new champs in Normal queue (that's what it's there for believe it or not), and stop qq'ing about somebody not knowing how to fulfill a role. Judging by your history, bot matches haven't taught you that Berserker's Greaves is notably better on a Varus.


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mambawarrior

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Member

05-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiegrafOfValor View Post
I'm not sure crockman is a troll or if he really does not understand anything that I'm talking about.

I HAVE VERY LIMITED TIME FREE.
PLAY A GAME BY DAY, AND EIGHT IN WEEKEND.
I HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO TEACH SOMEONE HOW TO PLAY IN THE MIDDLE OF A MATCH.
IT IS ASKING TOO MUCH, FOR A REQUIREMENT FOR A PERSON THAT KNOW HOW TO PLAY WITH YOUR CHAMPION BEFORE PLAYING IN PVP?
U have a limited time free?
ROFL
I have 2 hrs per non-working day free, no time on weekdays.
I do not intend to waste that time on ten bot games for every champion i want to every use.
And what makes you so sure the feeders are always the ones trying champions for the first time? I try champions for the first time in normals and usually end up doing the best on our team. I look at the feeder's match history? They've only eever used one champion


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Queen Sejuani

Member

05-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiegrafOfValor View Post
Things that can be learned by playing against bots:
* Team play.
* Know your limitations and the limitations of your champion.
* Understand the importance of each position, tower, buff, and allies
* Know when their presence is necessary, and when you're messing up.
* Communication.
* Predict possible movement of its allies and adversaries.
* understand the stages of the battle.
... many other things, depends on whether you want to learn.

Teamplay:
I win 1v5 against bots in customs. No team play needed. Nor do you learn any because there is rarely a 5v5 teamfight going on, NOR do the bots have any specific runes, NOR do they fill in the role they are supposed to do. Like I could jump onto the enemy carry and Renekton bot would run back and worth like a tard not doing anything. They simply don't react to the situation properly.

Limitations:
Limitations I agree, but once again, not fully due to bots not having runes or fighting till their last percent of health. Like an Olaf with 10% would take down a Shaco at 80% with his passive, W and lifesteal. Would Olaf Bot EVER stay and fight at such low health? (If he even exists, I don't know, I don't play against bots) And this is only one small example, there are tons of others incase you wanted to say something like "well, then Riot should program certain bots properly!"

Importance of towers and presence of allies etc.
Doesn't matter, since the bots do not follow the current meta. Which means people can win by SHEER LUCK by picking somebody that is ranged and go against a duo lane that are both Melee champions. Not to mention that some Melee champions CAN win against ranged champions, but would they EVER play like that? That's not how bots work. And imagine if they would try the character out in the jungle? Try everything out as him which means Ganking, Counterjungling, seeing the speed of your jungle etc. This doesn't work because Bots see THROUGH Fog of war, don't use their skillshots properly, nor do they buy wards to prevent ganks. There is also no bot EVER jungling, so counterjungling can not be practiced against bots since there is nobody there. And even if there would, the bots would probably be too stupid to react properly and come help their ally in the jungle.

Communication:
Nope, I don't even have to elaborate on this one. A braindead monkey can win against bots without saying one word.


A bot game doesn't teach you much. It ONLY teaches you, what skills does what. Get familiar with the range and how you can use said skills. It also teaches you what to buy since you notice your stats as you level up.

To the actual OP of this thread:

I do agree that it wastes time for peope that don't have as much time to play due to work/school etc. But what would possibly get fixed if you forbid players to try out championns they have never played before? Firstly, what do you do if somebody buys a champion and wants to play him in a normal? Secondly, putting a restriction like "Win 10 bot games" is stupid, because anybody that has just a slight understanding of the game could easily win bot games. Not to mention what if said person does bad in bot games but gets carried by other people and ultimately make the bad player win the game? If this happens 10 times, the player STILL can use the champion in normals even though he has done bad in bot games. So implementing this, would only waste even more time since then people would have to be forced to play bot games for no reason.

The only way I can see this working is to disable free week champions in Normal Draft games.(If they didn't already) That way people can only play the champions they have already bought and then may only do bad due to their own lack of competence/skill instead of lack of knowledge about the character.


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Queen Sejuani

Member

05-25-2012

Double post of fa ggotry

Also, everything you said about bot games teaching you stuff is invalid, because in every single bot game your build is a clusterfck and wouldn't work against people that know what they are doing. You also aren't even 30 yet so pub stomping with Veigar is brain dead easy since nobody abuses the fact that his laning phase is absolute garbage and that you can make him your b!tch by walking up and auto attacking him basically. Hence why I don't use your Victories for granted. (In Normal games anyways)


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KnightxSScarlett

Senior Member

05-26-2012

While I don't support this for normals, I do support the idea for ranked. Perhaps requiring someone to play 5-10 games with a champ before letting them play them in ranked would keep people from playing a champ for the first time in ranked (Which I swear a Karthus just did to me). Feeds Kat mid then says "We all fed Kat" while Sivir and I have 2 deaths at bot lane... (1 of which we each got during a teamfight).

- Mageinta Warrior


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Aegonix

Senior Member

05-26-2012

Bot games teach you nothing. Bots don't team fight, they tend to run in circles while you beat on their ally. Bots don't communicate, and you're just as likely to be vs a Garen mid, as you are to be facing a Fiddle mid. That doesn't help you learn your champ any better.

For Ranked, I can sort of agree, but change the requirement to play X number of Normals before you can use the champ in ranked.

Absolutely not for Normals. The point of normals is so that you can try new champs/builds/strategies in a significantly less competitive environment.

If a 10 bot game requirement was implemented for Normals, you may as well completely remove the free week champs. Just open the entire roster for vs Bot play, so people can try all the champs, and decide which they really like.


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Dragoon Feld

Senior Member

05-26-2012

first game i picked up nasus i ric'rolled my enemy team.

why? because i read about his playstyle before hand and adopted it to my own in game


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Vikaryous

Senior Member

05-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiegrafOfValor View Post
That's why I hate to chat with 12 yo childs. You argument it's invalid, you all talking about how much you can learn by playing with other ppl, and that you guys don't learn anything playing with bots.
That's your fault, they gave you the opportunity to learn with bots, If you don't, that's not Riot fault.
I haven't said that playing against bot it's better than play with ppl, what I'm saying is that you suppose to learn how to play with the champion first. Like learning how to use a tool before working with it.

C'mon kids, stop trolling like a bunch of nailheads and begin to questioning if it is a good idea or not.

AT LEAST READ BEFORE POSTING SOMETHING.
It doesn't take 100 man hours to figure out how to work a wrench