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Change Darius ult to deal physical damage.

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9Point

Senior Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Certainlyt:
Yes, Darius has good base stats and great ratios. I fail to see what is wrong with that. Darius's weaknesses are a lack of sustain and mobility (and, as a toplane/jungler, the fact that he uses mana). In exchange, he gets some pretty amazing strengths. I think that is a good thing and has lead to a champ unlike any we've seen before.


If i didn't consider lifesteal a sustain i could agree. But having massive ad scaling and pretty high base ad, so lifesteal gives quite a bit. So i disagree.

And mobility?
So his weakness is he cant chase and no one can engage him?
I dont understand that.
Its a team game. no he cant chase. Also if anyone melee engages his he will win.
And even in using stuns to escape he can pull you back.

for reference singed and Darius have the same range in the toss and pull.

You made a champ with incredible Ad, and to balance gave him incredible Defensive scaling.


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ikillutwice

Senior Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Certainlyt:

Second, we wanted to make sure Darius's ult did not kill squishy ranged ADs and mages from full with low bleed stacks.

I greatly disagree with this spin pull one auto and ult will do 1500 damage at level 11 instantly killing any ranged ad or mage


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Rafael Elendil

Senior Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Certainlyt:
Yes, Darius has good base stats and great ratios. I fail to see what is wrong with that. Darius's weaknesses are a lack of sustain and mobility (and, as a toplane/jungler, the fact that he uses mana). In exchange, he gets some pretty amazing strengths. I think that is a good thing and has lead to a champ unlike any we've seen before.


Then why he will be nerfed?


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beastzero13

Senior Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Eyeburn:
No. No they do not.

You have to realize that the only three sources of % based ArP in the game are the 10% mastery, the 40% on LW, and the 25% on Darius' E.

Darius is capable of the highest % based ArP in the game at 60%. That's a lot of bacon.


Jarvan (26%) and wukong(30%) have %Armor shred which is more effective than %Arp (because unlike %Arp it is calculated before flat Arp) so this is relevant how?


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buttros

Senior Member

05-24-2012

I just found out that Darius' Ult ignores Poppy's passive. He executed me for 784 true damage. I always assumed poppy's passive works vs any kind of damage. But it seems now you have to build Poppy with warmog when you see a Darius in game...


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Random Dolphin

Senior Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Derpster:
Also as someone once stated, the way his ult works you want to try to last hit with it. This means most of the gold is pooled to darius. This essentially gimps the rest of your team most specifically the ad carry.


Not when your curbstomping the enemy top laner 1v1.


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9Point

Senior Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Certainlyt:
Yes, Darius has good base stats and great ratios. I fail to see what is wrong with that. Darius's weaknesses are a lack of sustain and mobility (and, as a toplane/jungler, the fact that he uses mana). In exchange, he gets some pretty amazing strengths. I think that is a good thing and has lead to a champ unlike any we've seen before.


Also mana costs? Im just gonna repost because that abusrd.

He has incredibly high base stats.
Highest starting armor in the game in fact.
Modest base hp (higher then Riven/Ren lower than Udyr/SHy)
But in top 15 for highest base Health at 18 ( as 15 with 2100)
Even his Base AD ratio is in top 30 (he is 27 with 113) Higher then kong/ire/fiora/urgot/tyrn

Also. For every weakness he has (and he does have them) he has a built in buffer.
Passive dmg buff (sorry i consider stacking ad "bleed" on hit effect a dmg buff) with move speed that also procs on skills. So yes, he is melee and has slow move speed but a move speed buff at a maximum 550 range (his pull) or 425 (his spin)

For context Tyrn's mocking shout is 400 range and his spin is 660 range

And as for mana costs. at 18 with no runes or mastiers he has 875 mana.
His mana costs are not that high... (at 18)
q: 40 mana
w: 50 mana
e: 45 mana
r: 100 mana
So saying he "easily" gets penta with constant ults that leaves him with 375 mana.
Using each move once (q,w,e) takes 135 mana.
He can use all moves twice, hit ult 5 times and still have 105 man left. which is enough for any two other moves.

This is all of course without calculating in mana regen. which is low for him. (it being a flat 6)

With his ult, its not that its OMG TRUE DMG SO MUCH OP OP OP.
Its that even with a poor early game he can quickly come back.
A single team fight can give him a quick kill maybe two if lucky and thats really all he needs to undue 15 minutes of good counter play.

Lastly, his ratios are not bad at all. .4 on a passive and .7 on everything else is nothing to scoff at. (1.5 if you count full charged ult) And it wouldnt be so bad but his base damage on his moves isnt exactly low either.

Compare his passive to Rivens. (only passive i can think of with ad scaling)
Rivens:
Riven's abilities charge her blade, causing her to do 5 / 7 / 9 / 11 / 13 / 15 (+0.5 per bonus attack damage) bonus physical damage on her next autoattack. Riven can store up to 3 charges, and will only expend one at a time.
Darius:
Darius' basic attacks and damaging abilities cause enemies to bleed for 12 / 15 / 18 / 21 / 24 / 27 / 30 / 33 / 36 (+0.4 per bonus attack damage) magic damage over 5 seconds, stacking up to 5 times. Darius gains 5% movement speed for each bleeding enemy champion.

Now if your going to say well there different play style blah blah blah.
OK. Fine.
But this is without counting his on hit effect that is % damage and starts at 120% extra damage.

Bolded to help


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seriouslybored

Senior Member

05-24-2012

I'm sorry but those mana costs dont do anything to him early game..
And an ult which has true damage and refreshes every kill/ assist makes it IMPOSSIBLE to counter him..


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Eyeburn

Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
beastzero13:
Jarvan (26%) and wukong(30%) have %Armor shred which is more effective than %Arp (because unlike %Arp it is calculated before flat Arp) so this is relevant how?


You're talking about duration debuffs. I'm talking about constant stats. Big ol' difference.


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Duelpower

Senior Member

05-24-2012

There is this thing called fake mana costs... fix it if you intend that to be a weakness of his.