Change Darius ult to deal physical damage.

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Eyeburn

Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Certainlyt View Post
60 AD seemed reasonable for a bruiser type. Often they can afford only one offensive item. Change the number to whatever realistic value you want and it will still fall off hard due to late game armor values in our game.

Regarding him being my champion, I find that most designers are like myself: we are more worried about game health as a whole than our own champion. I would not have released him, and my peers would not have let me release him, unless we were certain that play and counterplay determined the outcome of most Darius engagements.
60 AD because there's only one slot available for an AD item is reasonable on tanky DPS who are focused around being tanks in the late game. Darius has been toted as a damage centered fighter. I dare you to find more than a handful of Darius players who don't have at least 130 bonus AD at the endgame.

Not to mention that Last Whisper exists specifically to counter large amounts of armor. If I'm not mistaken, Renekton building armor in response to AD burst, and then that AD burst building Last Whisper in response to lots of armor, is a good example of play and counterplay based off interactions between players. Is this not extremely desirable for "game health"?


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9Point

Senior Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Certainlyt View Post
I think you omit an important factor: Darius's ult is lackluster without bleed stacks. The Darius player has to plan out in advance of ulting who the best target is and begin "banking" ult damage on them. Garen does not.
I think you forget that his skills apply stacks.
there are in fact other melee champions too.
And he doesn't suffer mana problems as he can spam 5 ults and still have more then enough mana to use every move twice and then some.

For someone with so much dmg potential you would figure he wouldnt need high base stats and scaling. That would be the trade off. His attacks and skills chain easily to massive ult but he has low armo/hp. But thats not the case.
Having the highest base armor in the game.....


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Valentiin

Senior Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Flambe View Post
speaking of renekton any changes planned for passive/kit to improve his late game viability on the likes of say riven and other casters who scale decent/well into late game?

Edit: Downvoted for asking a question l0l
Downvoted for derailing a thread. Get some perspective.


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FEMALE STREAMER

Senior Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Certainlyt View Post
I think you omit an important factor: Darius's ult is lackluster without bleed stacks. The Darius player has to plan out in advance of ulting who the best target is and begin "banking" ult damage on them. Garen does not.
Then at least make ali block true dmg with his ult.


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Valentiin

Senior Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyeburn View Post
Why would a Darius only have 60 AD at level 16 if he's a champion that's supposed to be offensive first?

Making it deal true damage just seems like an awful lot of hand holding for the player.
The reading comprehension is weak with this one...


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SteveTheCrusader

Senior Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyeburn View Post
Increase the damage just a bit to compensate and bam, this:

(Active): Darius leaps to target enemy champion and strikes a lethal blow, dealing true damage. For each stack of Hemorrhage on the target, Noxian Guillotine deals an additional 20% damage.
The cooldown is refreshed if Noxian Guillotine kills the target, or if the target dies within 0.5 seconds after use.

Cost: 100 mana
Range: 475
Cooldown: 100 / 90 / 80 seconds

True Damage: 160 / 250 / 340 (+0.75 per bonus attack damage)
Maximum True Damage: 320 / 500 / 680 (+1.5 per bonus attack damage)


becomes this:

(Active): Darius leaps to target enemy champion and strikes a lethal blow, dealing physical damage. For each stack of Hemorrhage on the target, Noxian Guillotine deals an additional 20% damage.
The cooldown is refreshed if Noxian Guillotine kills the target, or if the target dies within 0.5 seconds after use.

Cost: 100 mana
Range: 475
Cooldown: 100 / 90 / 80 seconds

Physical Damage: 200 / 300 / 400 (+0.75 per bonus attack damage)
Maximum Physical Damage: 400 / 600 / 800 (+1.5 per bonus attack damage)




Here are just a few examples of how this would change Darius for the better:

Old Darius -
"Hey Darius, you going to build some armor pen to up your damage?"

"Lol, maybe like as a fifth item.. maybe."

New Darius -
"Hey Darius, you going to build some armor pen to up your damage?"

"Will I ever! Have you seen the synergy my passive ArP has with Last Whisper!? And it will help me get kills with my ult so I can refresh the CD more often! This is so fun!"

Old Darius -
"Man, their Darius really snowballed hard; we should have our AD carries counter build against that damage."

"So... you want me to build a Warmog's or Frozen Mallet?"

New Darius -
"Man, their Darius really snowballed hard; we should have our AD carries counter build against that damage."

"I would probably do well with a quick Warden's Mail into a Randuin's late game, or maybe a Frozen Heart to slow down those passive applications. I'm glad I picked up this Wriggle's for laning, that early armor does help; and I can always swap out my AS boots for Ninja Tabi for an extra boost without losing too much damage potential."



The benefits are endless!
this guy is right though


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Draktok

Senior Member

05-24-2012

Hey mr riot guy, Irrelevant to this thread I think you may find the poll interesting; most unbiased poll I could make. Thanks for the champ!

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...2146145&page=7


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Eyeburn

Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentiin View Post
The reading comprehension is weak with this one...
Irony is cold-hearted, isn't she?


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SubToMeOnYoutube

Senior Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentiin View Post
The reading comprehension is weak with this one...
????? How so???? I see nothing wrong with what hes saying. So I honestly think something is wrong with you


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9Point

Senior Member

05-24-2012

He has incredibly high base stats.
Highest starting armor in the game in fact.
Modest base hp (higher then Riven/Ren lower than Udyr/SHy)
But in top 15 for highest base Health at 18 ( as 15 with 2100)
Even his Base AD ratio is in top 30 (he is 27 with 113) Higher then kong/ire/fiora/urgot/tyrn

Also. For every weakness he has (and he does have them) he has a built in buffer.
Passive dmg buff (sorry i consider stacking ad "bleed" on hit effect a dmg buff) with move speed that also procs on skills. So yes, he is melee and has slow move speed but a move speed buff at a maximum 550 range (his pull) or 425 (his spin)

For context Tyrn's mocking shout is 400 range and his spin is 660 range

And as for mana costs. at 18 with no runes or mastiers he has 875 mana.
His mana costs are not that high... (at 18)
q: 40 mana
w: 50 mana
e: 45 mana
r: 100 mana
So saying he "easily" gets penta with constant ults that leaves him with 375 mana.
Using each move once (q,w,e) takes 135 mana.
He can use all moves twice, hit ult 5 times and still have 105 man left. which is enough for any two other moves.

This is all of course without calculating in mana regen. which is low for him. (it being a flat 6)

With his ult, its not that its OMG TRUE DMG SO MUCH OP OP OP.
Its that even with a poor early game he can quickly come back.
A single team fight can give him a quick kill maybe two if lucky and thats really all he needs to undue 15 minutes of good counter play.

Lastly, his ratios are not bad at all. .4 on a passive and .7 on everything else is nothing to scoff at. (1.5 if you count full charged ult) And it wouldnt be so bad but his base damage on his moves isnt exactly low either.

Compare his passive to Rivens. (only passive i can think of with ad scaling)
Rivens:
Riven's abilities charge her blade, causing her to do 5 / 7 / 9 / 11 / 13 / 15 (+0.5 per bonus attack damage) bonus physical damage on her next autoattack. Riven can store up to 3 charges, and will only expend one at a time.
Darius:
Darius' basic attacks and damaging abilities cause enemies to bleed for 12 / 15 / 18 / 21 / 24 / 27 / 30 / 33 / 36 (+0.4 per bonus attack damage) magic damage over 5 seconds, stacking up to 5 times. Darius gains 5% movement speed for each bleeding enemy champion.

Now if your going to say well there different play style blah blah blah.
OK. Fine.
But this is without counting his on hit effect that is % damage and starts at 120% extra damage.