Change Darius ult to deal physical damage.

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Lysergix

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Senior Member

05-24-2012

people are complaining about a newly released champion? THIS IS NEW AND EXCITING. seriously, darius is fine. he has weaknesses, i don't even own him but would hate to see the bad players get him nerfed into garen status


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NocturnalWolf

Senior Member

05-24-2012

If they make his ult physical they will need to up the dmg/scaling quite a bit...otherwise it will be useless. or make it a combination of True/phys (150/200/300 true dmg, no scaling and 150/200/300 physical with a .75 AD scaling) or something. That would be ~250 dmg at level 6 before resistences which would be a guaranteed 100 dmg, which is not a lot, but would also do quite a bit of physical.

again, numbers can be tweaked, but as i said in other threads there isn't much i can think of that wouldn't just ruin his viability.

or keep his dmg the way it is, remove the "refresh on cd" and give him a different ability on a kill maybe give it a passive proc "splash" which would put his passive on nearby champs (this would let him get out of a fight after picking off a carry), or something.


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TheBuhdazzla

Senior Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9Point View Post
Ok....
Finally lets look at highest ad dmg move
(Active): Darius' next basic attack deals additional damage and slows the target's movement and attack speed for 2 seconds. Crippling strike's base cooldown is reduced by 1 second for each stack of Hemorrhage on the target.
  • Cooldown: 8 seconds
  • Range: 145
Cost: 30 / 35 / 40 / 45 / 50 mana
Total Physical Damage: 120 / 140 / 160 / 180 / 200%
Slow: 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40%


Hmm.... a 8 second cooldown 40% slow that does an additional 200% damage.
If you snowball hard enough, triforcing Cripple Strike is pretty lulzy. At least he doesn't come with 25% armor pen. Oh wait.


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Swampert

Senior Member

05-24-2012

I feel like Darius is like Xin Zhao, but with a kit that lets him be viable without being completely broken. He has that "you have to commit to your fight" mentality, but just does it better imo.


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Teraxe

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Senior Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merokane View Post
Heimer's weaknesses are:
> Lack of sustain
> Lack of mobility
> Lack of escapes
> Lack of good AP Ratios
> Lack of good base stats (armor, base HP, base move speed, etc) (Only his passive makes up for his low base HP5)
> Lack of targeted abilities for being a largely non-skillshot champ.
> Poor passive (stale, generic)
> Riddled with bugs

In exchange, Heimer gets... yea, what does he get again?
so, your point is that there is a champ in the game worse than darius. maybe heimer needs a buff and darius doesn't need a nerf.


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DarkestPhoenix

Senior Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NocturnalWolf View Post
If they make his ult physical they will need to up the dmg/scaling quite a bit...otherwise it will be useless.
Not really. Going back to a post I did a few pages ago, his ult does almost as much TRUE DAMAGE as Caitlyn's does PHYSICAL DAMAGE. Assuming both only had a fully stacked BT and assuming he had 5 hemorrhage stacks on his target, Caitlyn would do 900 damage(keeping in mind this can and will be affected by armor), Darius would do 830. He has one of the hardest hitting, unblockable executes in the game. Considering how naturally tanky he is, I would think making it Physical would be reasonable.


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Kizuna

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Senior Member

05-24-2012

I also wanted to pop in and say thank you, Certainlyt.

Darius is just fine - this colossal wave of self-righteous qq is simply a byproduct of putting a champ out there, who is like you said - "A champ unlike any we've seen before."

Which is good.

People complain about "no counterplay" - and that's total bs.

And when you call them on it, they further try to justify exactly how to counter isn't "optimal" - as if you shouldn't play this game adaptively to overcome your problems.

No, people just insist that they would never build HP to stop true damage, position themselves better to not be at risk of a chain ult, not build armor to make it take longer for darius to build up stacks and whittle someone down low enough to start said chain of ults, or bother focusing down a champ with zero escapes, zero innate tankiness, and zero shields.

I however, love your champion. It feels good to play someone who really does "tons of damage" when you play right, to play a champ who unlike most, can actually kill that amumu or alistar who just popped an ult and is running into their base under a tower with an ally with low hp.

And there has not been a single time when an enemy Darius has rolled my team, that we all didn't understand how, why, and where we made our mistakes that he capitalized on.


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9Point

Senior Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoflMyPancakes View Post
Not hard to guarantee your ult will deal a killing blow when it does 700-950 true damage and you're generally facing people with 2-2.5k hp.
To do 950 True damge he need 180 bonus damage as well as 5 auto attacks
Assuming he is also level 18 with only this 180 bonus ad for items.
His auto attacks:
- 113 (base) + 180 (bonus ad) = 293 per hit (not counting passive)
because of his passive (36 with .7 ad ratio)
His autos are
- 1) 293 + 32.4 (162/5 (from ticks) (36 +126 from ratio) = 325.4
- 2) 293+ 64.8 ((162/5 (from resetting tick) (36+126 from ratio)*2 from stacking passive) = 357.8
-3) 293 + 97.2((162/5 (from resetting tick) (36+126 from ratio)*3 from stacking passive)= 390.2
-4) 293 + 129.6((162/5 (from resetting tick) (36+126 from ratio)*4 from stacking passive)= 422.6
-5) 293 + 162 ((162/5 (from resetting tick) (36+126 from ratio)*5 from stacking passive)= 455

so without any moves just 5 auto attacks and ult he does:
Auto attacks 1951 + 950 true damge ult = 2901

After which you would suffer 4 additional ticks of 162 from bleed.

So to survive his entire combo you need more then:
2901+162 +162+162+162 = 3549

So yes. With 2k hp he would still kill you.


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crescenD0LLS

Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teraxe View Post
so, your point is that there is a champ in the game worse than darius. maybe heimer needs a buff and darius doesn't need a nerf.
No. We're saying that because Riot is not and has no plans of changing most of these considered 'UP' champs, to have someone THAT POWERFUL be released and be THAT MUCH STRONGER than the majority of other champions, he needs to be changed.

Look, there will always be balancing issues. Unfortunately that's the sad reality. But deliberately releasing a new champion who is this strong, and justifying it based on things like "his speed is slow" or "he has mana", is wrong and pathetic.

Like the guy you quoted said, Heimer for example. He has mana, he is slow. But he is given nothing as powerful as Darius has to compensate. And that's what most champs are.


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Kizuna

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Senior Member

05-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkestPhoenix View Post
Not really. Going back to a post I did a few pages ago, his ult does almost as much TRUE DAMAGE as Caitlyn's does PHYSICAL DAMAGE. Assuming both only had a fully stacked BT and assuming he had 5 hemorrhage stacks on his target, Caitlyn would do 900 damage(keeping in mind this can and will be affected by armor), Darius would do 830. He has one of the hardest hitting, unblockable executes in the game. Considering how naturally tanky he is, I would think making it Physical would be reasonable.
"Naturally tanky."

Prove this please.

Unblockable? You can both CC him during his leap if you know it's coming, and shields, strangely enough, DO absorb and "block" true damage too.

Although if you let Darius get in there and build 5 stacks on there, you deserved to be killed by his ult.

If Caitlyn was properly built, she'd have killed you in 5 shots from half the screen without even using her Q or any other cooldowns to begin with, so I fail to see this slanted comparison.