The biggest issue I have with LoL. Riot DOESN'T condone unorthodox picks!

First Riot Post
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BenStillerFgt

Senior Member

05-22-2012

You can skip this part if you want, just talking about myself.

Disclaimer: This is a smurf. The name of my real account is no where related to the name of my smurf. You won't be able to guess the name of my real account just by looking at my smurf. My real account is currently banned, hence why I am posting this on my smurf. If you are somehow offended by the name of my account, I cannot help you out there. Some people have pointed out that the "fgt" part of my account looks a lot like a derogatory word for homosexuals. I can see how they would come to that conclusion, but it I feel like that is bit of a stretch. It means something entirely different(it actually stands for fighting game, at least that was my intention). If Riot needs me to change it then i'll do so when they let me do it for free.


Some background about myself:
So this might as well be my farewell post from the community. I do not plan to return continue playing this game after my ban is lifted. For a little bit of background of myself. My elo range is 1500-1700. I have been playing this game for about a year now and I was very committed. I have amassed way more hours and games than most people have. I have played well over 2500+ games in my time on LoL. I started competitive game roughly ten years ago. I've been a huge part of the SSBM(Melee) community and fighting game communities. I fell in love with fighting games and my favorite fighting games have always been the ones that have engines which allow for the most creativity and sandboxing. The VS series(Marvel vs Capcom, Street Fighter vs Xmen, etc etc), Smash Bros. Melee and even most recently Skullgirls. I am a huge fighting game fan and I started to fall in love with playing LoL because I saw just how open ended the game's engine was.

Start reading here if you don't care about me!
So I recently received a ban on my main account. This definitely the second time I have been banned for this reason. I was quite unsure why I received my previous ban, but after given the reason for my most recent one I am 99% sure its for the exact same reason. This isn't your typical "verbal harassment", "intentional feeding" or "trolling" ban.

I sent in a support ticket to inquire the reason for my ban and this is the response I got:
http://imgur.com/bbjKP

So I replied with this:
http://imgur.com/q99Av

and he was kind enough to reply back here:
http://imgur.com/CZtcv

Now I have to warn you. If you don't take the time to read all three of those, then you probably shouldn't waste your time replying to this thread. You'll only make yourself look dumb if you make a comment thats already been addressed.

Now please note that he mentioned nothing about how I conducted myself in-game. I didn't verbally harass anyone, troll, intentionally feed, etc etc. None of that. The bottom line:
My ban is justified because my team did not like pick or choice of character for a certain role.

You have to keep something in mind here. I didn't just randomly pick these characters without previous practice with them. I have at some point while playing LoL(and even on my smurfs, which I have a few of) practiced all of my picks in normals first numerous times and discovered have works extremely well. So there was no "experimentation" when I took them to ranked in my opinion. I know what I am doing just as well as anyone who picks a normal character/build and takes it to ranked queue. In my opinion if someone wants a certain team comp, they should play 5v5 premade. I have always thought solo queue was where you come together with 4 other random players you don't know who all have the mindset on winning, then working together with these players and with the characters they choose to play. At no point in my time of playing LoL(besides now) was it indicated to me that my teammate's opinion, a complete random stranger I have never met in my life, that my choice of character actually mattered enough to warrant an account suspension based off this random guy's opinion.

What does this all mean? Well it means if you play anything unorthodox in ranked solo queue, then you are at risk for being banned if your teammates do not like your pick. This includes but is definitely not limited to:
AP Janna
AP Soraka
Mid Pantheon/Gangplank/insert any AD you don't normally see in mid
Double Bruiser bot lane
AD Lulu
Support Veigar/fiddlesticks/insert any character here that is not designated as a "support" character by Riot.
Eve Jungle(Yes. Playing something unconventional will give you the same hate as someone who literally just picks a character in the game).

Of course there are plenty more examples.

This is what literally just left me for a loss of words. I'm quite active on these forums and I've always been seeing numerous mods posting about how they are "up and open minded for changing the meta and breaking it". This ban basically speaks directly against that mindset. After doing some research I discovered that I'm definitely not the first person to receive a ban for this reason. I've seen people getting banned for playing things unorthadox champions/builds as well.

I recently made a reddit thread and there were some very good quotes from there.
Just a few quotes that furthur emphasizes my point..

Quote:
If you really did not communicate with teammates, and simply instalocked or said something like "I take this champ on this lane or I feed", then I would vote for a punishment. If there was verbal harrasment or flaming I would vote for a punishment.
However, judging purely from your post and the two links you provided, picking unconventional champs or doing "strange" builds should not be a bannable offense. You are still in the game, playing for your team to win. If you disagreed with your teammate(s) disagreeing on your pick, well that's that, we disagreed, we are both sticking to our guns, so all that is left now is to play and do our best, try to make it work. That is still communication, just no consensus.
There are no set-in-stone lanes for a champion.
AP Hecarim mid, Fiora mid * why couldn't Fiora or Hecarim be played mid? There is no rule that says Fiora must only be played top. Every champion can work in every role, the only difference being how well compared to another champ, and depending on the skill of your opponent(s) AND your teammate(s).
Randoming champions * why can't you random champs in ranked if Riot placed that option there? Also my client froze on one occasion as well. By the time I realised something was wrong and managed to close and reopen it the game had already started and I ended up with a random champion (it was a normal mode game).
Fiddle bot lane without support items * What? Is there an official list of items which a support Fiddle HAS to build?
The meta is not set in stone. It is what's played the most, but that does not mean it must be played that way.
You cannot simply ban players because they play bad or pick something you think won't work. You can disagree with them, try to persuade them to change their pick or playstyle and that's it. If they play enough games with a failed strategy / build / pick they will eventually drop so low you will never be matched with them again. Is that not the point of ranks and ELO, that you only get matched with people in your range? You cannot always win, there are so many variables in one single game.
If you ban because of champion pick and/or build, I think you might as well remove every single item from the game, and cut down champion pool to 10 champions. Then declare which role each of those ten champions must always play and have fun.
The core of points: I. Support your team *If you play to win, call out ss, gank, ping warnings, ward etc, you are supporting your team. Right?
Enjoy yourself, but not at anyone else's expense *This can be applied both ways and ultimately becomes a question of whos enjoyment is more important. How many games were there where the OP's picks and performance were enjoyed, but with no mechanic to report the enjoyment? Only the bad ones are counted.
Lead by example *Is this not what was attempted?
Quote:
If this is true it is completely unacceptable, why give you the choice to choose random if you can't pick it without being banned? Surely if you want to do bad builds that's your own choice and you'll drop in elo. How can they determine whether you are trolling or genuinely think it was a good idea? I dislike that a game bans for these reasons. Why not ban people when they counter pick themselves, or ban people for making stupid calls, you can't ban people for being bad, unless you slapped a I'M TROLLING YOU GUYS on the chat, honestly riot needs to sort out who they are banning.
Quote:
Doesn't sound right to me. I have seen Scarra playing AP Hecarim mid and Fiora mid as well. Should be able to play who you like and build how you like it as long as you are trying to win.
In finally in conclusion, I can no longer enjoy this game if Riot is actively out there punishing people for playing things that are not the norm because your team disagrees with your pick. I was not aware that "Support your Team" and the other examples he gave from the Summoners Code was actually interpreted by Riot as "Please your teammates at all times or else you will get punished". I am still playing to win, else I would't be in ranked solo queue. Why does someone else's opinion on what I play dictate if I can play it or not? This mindset is why I believe I don't think I can enjoy this game any longer.
I play fighting games for the reason that I can open up and try out new things at home, then later once I think I have a good handle on it, take something that isn't very well known/played much into tournament and do well with it. Of course there will be rough edges and the occasional bad game(just like playing a normal character!), but you get better by learning from your mistakes. No one is always going to have a perfect game.


So farewell LoL community. Enjoy your static, stale, never-changing game. I hope you like the current meta, cause at this rate it ain't changing for years to come.

P.S. I'll be around this thread for awhile to answer questions and give responses.


tl;dr: There is none. This is a pretty big issue, so if you don't want to read it then just move on.


Some good quotes from the thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotHomo View Post
as someone who plays:

Jungle Miss Fortune
Ezreal 0cs Bot Lane
Support Nidalee
Tankplank and Tankzahar

i really do believe that something needs to change. my success rate is great with these char/builds, and would be so much better if teammates didn't rage and throw games because of my choices.

i hate that someone streaming at 2k elo has to use something in order for it to become accepted 2 weeks later as accepted gameplay. if something doesn't work, and consistently fails, the person using it will drop in rating. this is normal. punishing someone for using something that may or may not fail, is tacking on an unnecessary additional burden on top of the system.

riot if you believe your rating system works. let it weed out all the crit annies and support fiddlesticks on its own and place the people who play them at the appropriate elo levels for these strategies/builds. heavy handed punishment of these kinds of choices just demonstrates that your game has hidden limitations that need to be followed, if you're going to punish people for playing jungle garen, post it clearly in the game client. make it abundantly clear what the current meta "allows" and what will cause a ban.

that's all i ask. don't fine people for speeding when you didn't post any speed limit signs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finanzamt View Post
I've done a lot of tribunal cases over the last weeks in EUW ...

Some reports are just a shame for the guys who report.

I can remember four specific reports that are very similar to your reports.

The first was a jungle Eve.
She did pretty well considering her k/d/a and her build was like an ap assassin.
She got reported from her whole team just for picking eve - despite they won that game - and I guess Sche took a huge part in that win.

The second was a GP mid - but with ap items.
The game was lost for their team but he had an incredible k/d/a and a very good itembuild for this unusual build.
They reported him for feeding since he had "1/5" but apparently they overlook his assists ... of which he got 31 - thirtyone assists ...

The third was a jungle Morgana that did not very well but not bad either.
She got reported for "trolling" despite they won that game.
I can imagine she works similar to Fiddle in the jungle since she has built-in spell vamp and a good clearing speed after the first round.

The last one made me giggle ... a Nautilus player who went supoprt got reported for trolling.
He had fine stats for a support and his build was absolutely fine with Philo - HoG - Aegis - Boots.

I don't get it, that this community is so stubborn about the "Meta" and they follow it almost blindly till some high elo streams or tournaments "reveal" new strategies ...

Greetings

Quote:
Originally Posted by PvtJuice View Post
I don't understand how a build can be perceived as "experimental" when it has been proven to work time and time again. That would imply that that specific build has just as high a chance of winning as other, more common, builds.


For a while I faced the dilemma that the only AD carries I could play were Sona and Janna, but if I ever picked them my team would get upset. However if I opted for a common AD carry such as Ashe or Tristana, I would do terribly because I had no experience with them(this was also a time before I knew how to attack-move).

It basically went like this:

Picks Ashe and does well -> gj ashe
Picks Janna and does well -> op janna BREAKING THE META
Picks Ashe and does bad -> ashe u suck
Picks Janna and does bad -> janna is a support u ******, report this failure

Even though AD Janna is a legitimate build, people would rather go out of their way to see that it isn't. (playing Janna as an AD carry in this instance isn't even breaking the meta, as you still fill the team slot for AD carry and go bot with a support)

This happens all the time with any "unusual" build I do, even if they work effectively consistently. I don't like playing Normal games anymore, Draft or Blind, because I'm at the elo range where people blindly follow the meta without understanding it while discouraging anything outside the norm. And that leads me to something else...

The discouragement of unusual builds is caused by the players' mentality. Riot doesn't care what you play as long as your team is okay with it, but more often than not, what is "okay" with your team will be a strict set of rules in regards to champion picking, which if you don't adhere to, you are reported for. There are some people out there that honestly enjoy playing as Evelynn more than any other champion, but they aren't allowed to because as soon Eve's portrait pops up in champion select, chat looks like this: "ugh eve. im afk. please no eve. sum1 dodge. report eve after." I personally like Evelynn a lot, but behavior like that is why I don't play her, because I am 100% certain that in the off games that you do poorly with her, you are reported. Do poorly with a standard build or top pick champion though, and no one says anything outside of calling you bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolusEmsu View Post
This thread makes me miss the old pre-S1 style...

You remember, back when you just picked champions and went somewhere you felt you could go?

And you just played to win?

You did not feel bad about going Ashe top against that [random melee champion] because you won!

When my friend and I did Taric+Heimerdinger bot lane with double Innervating Lockets and won 12/12 games by breaking inhibitors by <15 minutes every game! Back before jungling was mainstream of course, which is entirely why it worked.

Back when people were realizing that individual lane matchups were more a determinant on winning those lanes than sticking to some pre-determined meta.

Sad part about the OP's predicament, is that I have watched several high-ranking streamers roll out support fiddles, Riven + stunner bot lanes, Fiora/Xin/Riven/Yi mids, and so on. Even though these things have been showcased and streamed and proven to be effective, people still refuse the option even if it works because they are too set on what they think is perfect, even when people in the top percentile say over and over that it is not.

So many problems in history stem from this self-serving bias. Sad people make me .. Sigh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverPull0ut View Post
It's amazing to me how much people refuse to go against the meta in lower Elos. On my smurf, I sometimes played fun things at lower Elos and ended up carrying anyway, I'd have my 0/3 bot lane AD carry raging at me for playing Blitzcrank top when I was 5/0 with a cs lead just because it gave him a free scapegoat.

I'm only ~1950 Elo, but when I play late at night, I get into games with pretty much all the pro players. I remember one game in particular that Aphromoo and Bigfatlp went Nautilus Pantheon bottom lane, my team had double jungle, and Chauster went AP Warwick with DFG and was one shotting people with his ult and Q. It was one of the most fun games I've played, and no one even laned, everyone just ran around the map killing each other all game.

Unfortunately, people who are lower Elo and take this game REALLY seriously refuse to just have fun and experiment and if something doesn't work out, then move onto the next game. I played support Cassiopeia 8 times on my smurf from 1300 to 1800 Elo (Her W slows and gives vision, AOE ult like Sona, high sustained damage for a support) and won the first 7 games. Every single time, my team was loving it and talking nonstop in all chat about "support cass op!" Then the 8th game, I got outplayed at level 2 and missed a poison and got first blooded, my AD carry and middle immediately went AFK and told the other team to report me. The ironic part? They actually agreed to report me over the two people that went afk.

Basically, it doesn't matter if what you do is successful these days. If you do something that hasn't been seen in a tournament or on stream, then you will be reported, and you will be punished by the Tribunal.
and this guy sure did how a mouthful to say. While he does make a few stretches, his ultimate point is extremely clear enough for me to put this here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neferit View Post
These Riot posts are very, very disturbing, to say the least.
These Riot posts essentially say that it doesn't matter whether you try to win or not. It doesn't matter whether you have ill intentions or not. Your intentions are totally irrelevant, all that matters is whether you have pleased your teammates or not.
And that also means, that doing badly becomes bannable. Because regardless of whether you had the intention to feed or not, you ruined the game for people by feeding. You maybe didn't want to have an inferior build or rune-setup, you maybe just didn't know any better, but that doesn't matter if you ruin other people's games with it.

That is sick. Demented. Twisted. Perverted.
And then another very similar post. Well spoken!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neferit View Post
What WookieCookie said is plain disgusting.

It would have been easy for him to say:"From your behaviour, it is apparent you have picked those champions purely out of spite and thus deserve your punishment for intentionally trolling your team."

Did he say this? No. He said that the ban was warranted because he "refused to listen and cooperate with the team and choosing champions unsuited for their role", the very first sentence of his first post. Thus, these are apparently offenses that warrant a ban, regardless of whether there is more to this case or not.

With that, he essentially said that picking ANY champ your team does not approve of can result in punishment, regardless of your intentions. And your team can disapprove with your pick for a LOAD of reasons. It doesn't matter why the team disapproves, though, if they disapprove, you can be banned for it.

It is not a matter of refusing to communicate either. It's a matter of refusing to OBEY. You can communicate, listen and argue all you want, if your team disapproves, or rather, if you disobey your team's demands, you can get banned, regardless of how much you tried to communicate, regardless of your intentions.

Also, given that champions are optional content, it means that not OWNING a champion suited for a specific role is a BANNABLE offense, because not picking a champion suited for the role apparently is a bannable offense. This is getting extremely relevant with the next patch when free week is removed and not everyone will have an "ideal" champion for each role to pick.

But there's more. Runes are also optional content. Not using and/or owning runes suited for a specific matchup is also a bannable offense, because it will set your team behind. The same reasoning as before applies. What's more, your team can decide what runes you are supposed to use. You might think ArPen would be better than flat AD, but if your team disapproves, you can get banned for not using flat AD runes. It doesn't matter whether you have such a runepage or not.

And that's still not the end of it.

He also states that the intentions behind these actions do not matter. He states that the effects of the actions matter. And that does make playing badly a bannable offense, too, because it affects others in a negative way, even though it wasn't your intention to.

That is the extent of what WookieCookie said in his posts.
Let the consequences seep in for a moment.

Frankly, I don't care about the OP. There may be more to his case or not. What WookieCookie said is an outrage, and a righteous one at that regardless.

IF these posts of his are real, that is. If they aren't, well, false alarm.
I really like this post. It sets the feeling that a lot of people have while reading this thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrcheIium View Post
Riot, you are setting a precedence here that I KNOW you don't want. Wookie has always been an amazing Red who handles people justly, so I am not calling him out or anything. You have quiet literally just stated that it is unacceptable to break meta, or you will be banned. This is the exact opposite of the stance taken on Eve, by the way, where you cannot be banned for playing Eve if you think it fits your team. So you state that using the unarguably worst champion in the game if it suits the team is acceptable, but not using a less common pick/build that you ALSO think suits the team? This is absolute hypocrisy. And you never once addressed the issue brought up by the OP that you will always get reported for making a pick your team doesn't approve of if you lose. This is something we all know can and will happen a portion of a players games. If I am designated solo top, and I pick Master Yi, and lose, I will VERY LIKELY face reports in some of those games, just because he is a melee carry not a bruiser, even though he pretty much fits the role of top (good roamer, sustain with meditate, melee fighter, etc...) The fact that OP has achieved gold elo with unorthodox picks is verifiable proof that he knows what he is doing and is quiet capable of using the champions the way he has. And in the case of support Fiddlesticks, I will again turn towards the precedence Riot has set in the past. We have been told countless times that if your team leaves you no choice but a role, be it your best or worst role, you are not obligated to fulfill it the way they expect, or even within the meta. You are taking back A LOT of good will that Riot has earned by saying that non-meta is completely acceptable as long as you execute it seriously and with the intent to win.

This whole ordeal has made me lose buckets of faith in the company that I constantly praise for shaking archaic ideals in what makes a game good and fun. It is genuinely painful, and I bet you anything this feeling resonates within this thread.
And the critical point of all of this stems here. Well said!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlezzyBlame View Post
I've always thought that the "IV Code" was a hazard to the game when it came to disciplining players. As stated before it LITERALLY gives Riot complete justification to do just about anything they set fit. I'm not saying they DON'T have the right to do this, it's their game, they call the shots. But it CERTAINLY would not align itself very well with the statements made about "Being allowed to pick any champion you want on champion select".


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Typhnox

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Senior Member

05-22-2012

Question for you OP, do you inform your team well in advance of your picks?

Edit: Answered on page 6, for those curious.


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RagingDonkey

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Member

05-22-2012

I got to unorthodox and gave up

Edit: wow you actually did an ap hecarim mid when he has horrible ap scaling?
A support fiddle and actually building full support with no ap?
A full ad lulu?
All in a ranked game wtf?

And the 2nd reply pretty much sums up why you shouldnt do unorthodox builds/champion roles in RANKED GAME.


How would you expect not to be banned?


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Duke Br0heimer

Senior Member

05-22-2012

ITT: OP was being a **** in game and tries to make people believe he was banned for picking unpopular champions.

Also ITT: OP is very butthurt and is leaving us all in a very dramatic manner.


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Yummines

Senior Member

05-22-2012

there was a previous thread on this

the owner got banned. then he got owned by Pendragon.

you wont get banned for playing AP Janna. however you may get banned for refusing to communicate with your team, such as if you play AP Janna and do horribly, or blame other people for the loss.


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BenStillerFgt

Senior Member

05-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yummines View Post
there was a previous thread on this

the owner got banned. then he got owned by Pendragon.

you wont get banned for playing AP Janna. however you may get banned for refusing to communicate with your team, if you play AP Janna and do horribly, or blame other people for the loss.
Well if you read the post carefully, you would see that there were no problems with my team communication nor were there any signs of verbal harassment. The ban is justified because my teammates disliked/disagreed with my pick. I suggest actually taking the time to read the post. Thanks.


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Mirror

Senior Member

05-22-2012

Yep, I legitimately started reading until I saw you were banned


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Duke Br0heimer

Senior Member

05-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenStillerFgt View Post
Well if you read the post carefully, you would see that there were no problems with my team communication nor were there any signs of verbal harassment. The ban is justified because my teammates disliked my pick. I suggest actually taking the time to read the post. Thanks.
Or maybe you could just be a flat out liar, like all the other people who make those "OMG I'M ALWAYS NICE AND ONLY BANNED FOR PICKING UNORTHODOX CHAMPS" threads. Because in the end it always turns out that way.


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BenStillerFgt

Senior Member

05-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Br0heimer View Post
ITT: OP was being a **** in game and tries to make people believe he was banned for picking unpopular champions.

Also ITT: OP is very butthurt and is leaving us all in a very dramatic manner.
I don't see how you could draw another conclusion after I directly gave you the responses I received from Riot. I was banned for picking "unpopular champions" that my teammates didn't like.


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Zebulone

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Senior Member

05-22-2012

Read and agree. Just because people are mad that you go a bit unconventional, sending an AD mid to counter their AP or picking an AD bruiser for bot because it's better for you than trying to play AD ranged shouldn't get you banned. The tribunal alone says you can't get banned for doing badly, so why can you get banned for trying to win? You're >1600 in ranked, you're obviously not going top Evelynn and rushing Levathian or something..