Noxus - The misunderstood EVIL

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

LordHippoman

Senior Member

05-18-2012

*Runs in*

OH BOY! It's time for the list again! Maybe I can sneak it past bel this time...

R-R-R-R-REPOST

This topic has been brought up and argued about so often, but here's my two cents.

Noxus: Live on a skull shaped mountain in the "Dark City" where people like Shaco hang out. Their horses are mutated monsters and political assassinations are extremely common. People want to be "edgy" and try and find ways that they somehow have to be the good guys.

Demacia: Live in the shining City Of Light. The most terrible thing is *gasp*, RULES. Like a swimming pool. They have people like Garen, the brave knight and Xin Zhao, who was rescued from the killing pits of Noxus (yeah, they're TOTALLY the good guys with their bloody deathmatches) and now serves as a stalwart protector. They even have Yordles. What did Noxus do to Yordles? Read Veigars Story page.

And now, I will recount things that Noxus and Demacia have done that are evil:

Demacia: Forced conscription, having alot of...rules?

Noxus: Murdered Poppy's Father
Murdered Galio's Creator
Murdered Yi's ENTIRE VILLAGE
Used chemical warfare
Home to Shaco, Mordekaiser, and other villains.
Jailed Veigar alone for years, breaking his sanity.
Invaded Ionia
"Decidedly xenophobic"
Boram Darkwill has an extreme lust for power, as does Swain, LeBlanc, etc. (lol this is outdated he dead) Replace it with Keiran or what have you.
"The Noxian High Command reserves the right to draft any of its citizens, regardless of age, into military service "
Sends assasins to try and kill Sivir extremely often
Burns down Alistar's village and kills his family, then forces him into slavery.

Doesn't neccesarily mean that Demacia are the good guys though. Honestly, the only City State that I haven't seen do anything terrible at one point is Piltover...maybe Ionia...

_-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is not saying that Noxian ideology is wholly bad or that Demacian ideology is super good, but through the ways the two nations have conducted themselves, the distinction is more clear.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ask Talon

Member

05-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordHippoman View Post
*Runs in*

OH BOY! It's time for the list again! Maybe I can sneak it past bel this time...
inb4Bel

Quote:
Demacia: Live in the shining City Of Light. The most terrible thing is *gasp*, RULES. Like a swimming pool. They have people like Garen, the brave knight and Xin Zhao, who was rescued from the killing pits of Noxus (yeah, they're TOTALLY the good guys with their bloody deathmatches) and now serves as a stalwart protector. They even have Yordles. What did Noxus do to Yordles? Read Veigars Story page.
Your bias is showing.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Eredaar

Senior Member

05-18-2012

(( seriously Noxus may have good values heck we employ lots of them( oh and btw you can equate noxus using the chemical warfare... to the chemical warfare that everyone used in WW1 /facepalm ) but they take it WAY to far. PERIOD. there is no reason to kill someone to prove you are stronger all you have to do is defeat them. in modern countries people who may not be as stong/smart/ w.e. aren't screwed over they can still a happy life, whereas in Noxus you get people who aren't as strong ( oh and also what about people who are skilled in other areas? just because you are stronger physically or magically doesn't mean you are stronger than them overall ))


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

belthazor3457

Senior Member

05-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eredaar View Post
(( seriously Noxus may have good values heck we employ lots of them( oh and btw you can equate noxus using the chemical warfare... to the chemical warfare that everyone used in WW1 /facepalm ) but they take it WAY to far. PERIOD. there is no reason to kill someone to prove you are stronger all you have to do is defeat them. in modern countries people who may not be as stong/smart/ w.e. aren't screwed over they can still a happy life, whereas in Noxus you get people who aren't as strong ( oh and also what about people who are skilled in other areas? just because you are stronger physically or magically doesn't mean you are stronger than them overall ))
in regards to the points on WW1, I shall elaborate some.

In world war 1, the germans only surrendered because of an agreement that this new and dangerous concept, that being communism and socialism, had erupted in Russia and all the nations involved in world war 1 needed to take a chill pill to make sure simmilar revolts did not happen in germany, england, france, and the united states, all of which were facing potential socialist and communist movements. So the germans agreed to surrender despite the german army still comfortably occupying france at the time.

This was followed by the allied powers becoming super greedy and stacking a large set of ridiculously unfair surrender conditions onto germany, that the germans could no longer back out of due to risk of a socialist / communist movement or revolt in germany. So the surrender conditions were unfairly forced down their throats, saddling the war debt onto them and severely limiting their military. Among one of these conditions was to dismantle a large portion of the german military and force many soldiers out of work, therefor artificially creating an unemployment problem.

These surrender conditions, years later, were "updated" to become more severe, to squeeze even more money out of germany. The german government's only solution to fix this problem was to simply print more money to pay off the war debt as they had no other options except to start selling parts of the nation's land (how would you feel if someone from your government came to you and said you had to move because your land was being sold to some foreign government?)

the result of printing money was mass hyperinflation, which removes the value of any savings people had made, thus destroying the middle class, lower class, and upper class, effectively demolishing the nation's economic standing.

This gave way for the socialist movement, the national socialist german worker's party, to become elected democratically to power in germany with promise of socialist reform to fix these problems.

things spiralled out from there. The national socialist german worker's party, nowadays, is better known as the "NAZI party"

then in world war 2, the americans came up with a fancy new toy called napalm, which the british decided to see if they could beat the germans by mass exterminating the work and production force and firebombed major population centers to see how many people they could massacre in one night. Then the americans said "that's a brilliant idea!" and did the same thing to japan. Then the nukes came about and a uranium bomb was dropped on japan. The japanese were about to surrender, but a second weapon was to be tested, the plutonium bomb, which was dropped on japan for two reasons:

A) to test the plutonium bomb and compare it to the uranium.

B) the russians promised to support the american pacific theatre, stalin saw the first bomb get dropped, knew the japanese would surrender, and launched one of the largest invasions in history to try to get a piece of the pie and claim territory for the soviet union before the japanese surrendered. The united states wanted the japanese pie to have the bigger slices going to the united states, so the next nuke was dropped to speed up this process.


On a different note, a lot of people seem to think parachutes were not invented until after world war 1. some movies portrayed that this way. that wasn't true. the germans were given parachutes, the allied pilots were not. allied commanders felt that by giving their soldiers a potential exit, they would encourage cowardice, so a system was put into place to make sure someone who's plane was going down was likely to die to make sure they fought their hardest. The russians then stole this fancy british, french, and american idea (though the russians are stereotyped with the idea for their use of commissars to do this in world war 2, this is NOT the earliest incident). The german pilots, however, once the flaws of this system were uncovered, were all given parachutes.

During world war 2, a german general named Erwin Rommel participated in a plot to assassinate hitler. His army, the afrikakorps, was never charged of any war crimes due to their reputation for humane treatment of civilians and prisoners.

You typically don't learn about all the above in the history books that you will get growing up in school. In western society we often grow up with edited and censored history books to paint an image of "good guys on this side of the fence, bad guys on that side" (and not just western society, but everywhere) and intentionally removes information to paint a different picture than what was historically accurate - traditionally, this will include removing the negatives of our nations and also removing the positives of whatever nation we are against - and this carries over to create a black-and-white view of other topics that are sometimes irrational or require intentional misinterpritation of information. Many people fall into that intellectual tarpit because they are trained from birth that it's okay to be in said tarpit, mainly because we're raised to believe that we are good and someone else is bad. Much of the educational system as someone grows from childhood into adulthood conspires to grind that into people's brains and rob our kids and our youth of critical thinking skills.

Black is a lie. White is a lie. The only color is grey. = )

P.S. - don't worry hippo. I already made a post in this thread. The second one (This one) is only cause someone mentioned WW1. ^.^

night night errybody!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Dracorya

Senior Member

05-18-2012

I'm only going to pop in here and plead that some of you PLEASE use some proper formatting and grammar in what you write. Its really hard to follow what you are trying to say otherwise.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

EpicLotus

Senior Member

05-19-2012

I love how ppl donīt even read the lore and go giving their opinions on the subject....

Zaun is not Noxus... they are allies alright, but different states.
Ionian massacres on villages were mostly on the hands of Dr Warwick and Singed (Zaun).

In the JoJ that katarina talks about the remach, it is clearly stated that the areas governed by noxus were actually way more advanced and properous than others that remained under Ionian power.(THE HORROR!!!!)

Noxus has Laws, just not so strick as Demacia (were people are forced to fight).
The notion of a chaotic society, full of murders and maniacs are plain and simple in your minds, not in LoL lore regarding Noxus.
Hell even in Zaun they have laws!!!! They tried to arrest Mundo countless times but didnīt have evidence on his crims.

So basicly 99% of you are discussing if Zaun is ****d up on not... and even there you wouldnīt be portraing Zaun correctly XD.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

LordHippoman

Senior Member

05-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicLotus View Post
I love how ppl donīt even read the lore and go giving their opinions on the subject....

Zaun is not Noxus... they are allies alright, but different states.
Ionian massacres on villages were mostly on the hands of Dr Warwick and Singed (Zaun).

In the JoJ that katarina talks about the remach, it is clearly stated that the areas governed by noxus were actually way more advanced and properous than others that remained under Ionian power.(THE HORROR!!!!)

Noxus has Laws, just not so strick as Demacia (were people are forced to fight).
The notion of a chaotic society, full of murders and maniacs are plain and simple in your minds, not in LoL lore regarding Noxus.
Hell even in Zaun they have laws!!!! They tried to arrest Mundo countless times but didnīt have evidence on his crims.

So basicly 99% of you are discussing if Zaun is ****d up on not... and even there you wouldnīt be portraing Zaun correctly XD.
You make some good points, i had forgotten about Kat's statement in the JoJ, but people are forced to fight in Noxus too. The Fleshing and "The Noxian High Command reserves the right to draft any of its citizens, regardless of age, into military service ".


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Eredaar

Senior Member

05-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by belthazor3457 View Post
-snip-
none of that super long lengthy post even addressed what I said about WW1


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

belthazor3457

Senior Member

05-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eredaar View Post
none of that super long lengthy post even addressed what I said about WW1. I was simply talking about everyone used chemicals
Then I'll clarify its purpose. = )

WW1 and the following WW2 are prime examples of supposed good guys doing bad things - so I cited some of those examples. You mentioned that everyone used chemicals, so I took the opportunity to add some more examples. The comment wasn't made to be a reply. I am happy to make one for you though if you feel left out <3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dracorya View Post
I'm only going to pop in here and plead that some of you PLEASE use some proper formatting and grammar in what you write. Its really hard to follow what you are trying to say otherwise.
GRAMMAR IS HERESY! ^.^

♪ My little pony, grammar is heresy. ♪

♪ my little pony, i used to wonder what grammar could be, ♪

♪ my little pony, until you all showed me its heresy, ♪

♪ my little pony, la la laaa ♪

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordHippoman View Post
You make some good points, i had forgotten about Kat's statement in the JoJ, but people are forced to fight in Noxus too. The Fleshing and "The Noxian High Command reserves the right to draft any of its citizens, regardless of age, into military service ".
Well, as far as the draft goes, many many nations do that for various reasons. It's understandable in Runeterra since without the league most nations would probably be at war. Demacia also has mandatory military service and I imagine Freljord, Pitlover, Zaun, Bandle City etc. all have that in some form or another.

In my home country here on Earth, I had to register for the selective service (draft) so that if I am called to duty, I have to show up, will be given a weapon, and sent to fight. Failure to show up when called would mean that if I don't want to spend the rest of my life in prison I would have to flee the country. Failure to register for the S.S. so that I can be called is also an offense against the state, also punishable by spending quite a long time in a prison cell. We used to punish it with death (Execution). Lots of people argue that we still should punish it with death.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Dracorya

Senior Member

05-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicLotus View Post
I love how ppl donīt even read the lore and go giving their opinions on the subject....

Zaun is not Noxus... they are allies alright, but different states.
Ionian massacres on villages were mostly on the hands of Dr Warwick and Singed (Zaun).
.
One might argue that Noxus is equally at fault though because they hired the Zaunites and didn't object or say anything to the methods the Zaunites used.