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Why KSing is not a problem and why that's a good thing

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ExaltedVanguard

Senior Member

05-12-2012

All of this could be solved if we moved away from the 1990's style last-hit system. Remove the kill/assist system and scale rewards based on damage dealt to the target. If a target is worth 100 gold, give 70 gold to the person who did 70% of the damage, and 30 to the person who did 30%.

The "kill" is awarded to whomever dealt the most damage. Aside from the number on the scoreboard, however, it has no effect on the game. That way people get the rewards they deserve.


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Cheap0

Senior Member

05-12-2012

Quote:
Tyr Ahn Nee:
Obviously, for you guys, the game is more important than the human-being playing the game. Sterilizing the game of all human components, monetizing it, reducing it to a set of numbers, you've rationalized "kill stealing."

But what about the Human being? Working hard toward a goal only to have that goal snatched away by a player who is cowardly, greedy and selfish??? What about the Human-being who values fair-play, fair competition, forced to sit by and watch as all the rewards go to the cowardly, greedy and selfish???

What about the Human Being who has spent hours and hours practicing, struggling to become skillful at a champ or just the game, and just as the fruit of his labor is about to be realized, some player who hid in the bush, didn't participate in the fight, leaps out, pops the enemy one time and gets the kill???

Calling a Kill-Steal isn't about money or numbers, its about a host of other human qualities, values and ideas that make games games in the first place.


It's not that I don't care about human beings. It's that I care about the team more, and personal glory should take a back seat to the team's needs. This is a team game. Players should focus on doing things that benefit the team as a whole, whether it be strengthening their own characters or sacrificing to strengthen their allies characters. The support sacrifices money and experience every single game, gets little glory, and yet is an essential part of any good team. Likewise, if killstealing were to result in greater team benefit than not kill-stealing, then the players should do it. There is no invidivual victory or loss, so playing like there is will just hold you back.

Even if an assist isn't at stake, if players are afraid of kill-stealing from each other, then there will be times where a teammate won't come to help an ally who they think has a situation under control, but actually doesn't, and the enemy gets away.

Quote:
CHICKENpl0x:
KS = Kill Secured


Dead on (pun intended).


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Guppers

Member

05-12-2012

Quote:
Tyr Ahn Nee:
Obviously, for you guys, the game is more important than the human-being playing the game. Sterilizing the game of all human components, monetizing it, reducing it to a set of numbers, you've rationalized "kill stealing."

But what about the Human being? Working hard toward a goal only to have that goal snatched away by a player who is cowardly, greedy and selfish??? What about the Human-being who values fair-play, fair competition, forced to sit by and watch as all the rewards go to the cowardly, greedy and selfish???

What about the Human Being who has spent hours and hours practicing, struggling to become skillful at a champ or just the game, and just as the fruit of his labor is about to be realized, some player who hid in the bush, didn't participate in the fight, leaps out, pops the enemy one time and gets the kill???

Calling a Kill-Steal isn't about money or numbers, its about a host of other human qualities, values and ideas that make games games in the first place.


you're playing for the wrong reasons, use all that time and practice and casing chickens in a new york alley or w/e and spend that effort toward ONE conditions, destroying nexus by way of maximizing your team gold. When you realize that is how you win, and then realize team gold is the way to do that, you will thank that person for coming and taking the last hit after you painstakingly worked to bring them low. Perhaps that person understands in that siutaion that you guys are getting 58.x% more gold because of the assist than if he had let you keep your kill.

you claim I'm trivializing something important by reducing everything to numbers. But your argument is based on focusing on the least important number of all, your personal KDA


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Guppers

Member

05-12-2012

Quote:
Dr McRaptor:
No offense dude, but you could have said that in far fewer words...


oh my bad

*ahem*

"CALLING KS IF NOOBS YOU GUYS I"M SERIOUS DON'T DO IT"


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Little Boy Nate

Senior Member

05-12-2012

Quote:
Guppers:
oh my bad

*ahem*

"CALLING KS IF NOOBS YOU GUYS I"M SERIOUS DON'T DO IT"


Because this would have gotten your point across so much more effectively, right?


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monstuman443

Member

05-12-2012

I dont really care who gets a kill on my team as long as we kill more of them then they do us.


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datuglykid

Junior Member

05-13-2012

The exception to this rule of ks is gold distribution. Gold needs to go to the carries namely the ad range who is so item dependent. In a team fight, this is where the bulk damage should come from (rapid attacks/crits). The damage that comes from the ap carry is also item dependent but relies heavily on cooldowns. It is usually burst damage and that is all about timing and positioning(so not quite as dependent on items.) Other carries, generally solo laners that excel at dueling(tryn, nasus etc) can do great things with gold and can dominate the game with a surplus of 3 kills over the other players in the game.

On the other hand, what can tanks or support do with gold? More hp to absorb enemy damage, more stats and buffs to help team mates?

Auras are nice for teammates(zekes is a great way to add lifesteal to a carry so he doesnt have to spend his own money on it) but ultimately the best way to help your carry is to give him the gold for more AD,AS, and crit; things you can not provide like an IE and PD can.

Now as for tanks, you need to evaluate how tanky you need to be.
1. Cooldowns that u want to bait so they dont hit other teammates(fiddle,mumu ult)
2. Unavoidable cooldowns best applied on you with all your mitigation
3. Damage taken(including above) to get into position to disrupt their team and/or get them out of position from each other.
This varies each game throughout each game. Bottom line, just be strong enough to take a beating and bait them into your team to kill them. Kills(gold) make it easier for you, but you cant put out damage late game like their ad carry. It is very situational. Take kills with discretion.

The gold "pot" for each kill is a nice way to look at it imo. If there is a potential kill target, all carries and tanks(discretionary) should place their bets with a q shot or w/e, with supports dishing what they can before the target gets in the danger zone. As the team builds strength, they should seek to balance where the gold is going, with the excess to the ad carry.

This is coming from someone who mains mid, usually veig, who snowballs off kills. If I had the chance to give 10 kills of gold to either myself or ad bot, id give it to bot. My role now is to eliminate her threats(those activley looking to nuke her down in teamfights), which in turn are our teams biggest threats. This is much better than having me try to 1v5 and chancing only 4 getting hit with a stun leaving precious seconds of cooldowns where I am completely vulnerable to that one.


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Xion Dominagus

Senior Member

05-13-2012

KS'ing is bad when it is repeatedly done by one person. As shown by a match last night where an enemy team's panth had 16 kills and the rest of his team had 2, 3, 2, 4 kills. He was the only fed one, and because of this, his team eventually lost. Ksing in general isn't bad, too much ks'ing just turns your entire team into a 1v5.


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Davorir Et Tuanu

Senior Member

05-13-2012

KSing gets people out of the zone, man. It's not all numbers, there are the intangibles... like the LoL gods. Also, I had a 10/4 Janna that purposely took double kills. There is no way in hell I was going to start supporting the support. No shot. Naht happening. Oh wait I just went 7/0 as support Blitzcrank...


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WIMAAC

Member

05-13-2012

I usually don't really care about ksing, but when there are people who save their ults just so they can get the kill, then I get mad (ex. ashe arrow). But when I accidentally KS (didn't mean to take the kill, when I'm tank or support) , I always still try to apologize.