Does anyone do what Kayle does in the jungle?

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BunniFace

Senior Member

05-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cfattie View Post
if you go pure AD kayle with Black Cleaver, you can shred tanks to bits.

AD Kayle is better. Try it.
It feels so wrong not buying that delicious rageblade. :c

Also, would people get mad if my fail ganks just end up accidentally pushing the lane? I wanna try jungling her but I'm already awful at jungle ganks as it is.


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Cfattie

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Senior Member

05-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BunniFace View Post
It feels so wrong not buying that delicious rageblade. :c

Also, would people get mad if my fail ganks just end up accidentally pushing the lane? I wanna try jungling her but I'm already awful at jungle ganks as it is.
For jungle Kayle it's tricky; you need to kill your target to get the Gold that she ever-so needs, but she has no hard CC.

If people get mad at you failing your ganks, it's ok. Junglers were meant to be an extra zoning factor in the 3 lanes so that the enemy doesn't overrun any lane. In most cases, the kills that come with ganks can be thought as merely a bonus.

However, in Kayle's case, that isn't so.
She NEEDS those kills. (If you've ever played her, you will know that she often needs about as much or even more money than your AD carry)

The reason she was considered unviable before the recent buff was because she did not fit in the current meta anywhere (except for a few very situational counter-picks). She's not quite an AD carry, nor a tanky DPS, nor a support, nor a tank, and definitely not an AP caster. It's hard to form a team composition around unique champions like Kayle.

I think it's safe to say that even now, for her to be an excellent ganker, you will need a team that is willing to pick champs that will support her (namely a team with lots of hard CC).

So to answer your question:
Some people will get angry at you. That's just how some people roll.
BUT, if you want to jungle Kayle, make sure your team is ready to fully support you.


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Merenwen

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Senior Member

05-10-2012

Reading your post made me really wanna try jungling her. You were so convincing on your arguements that I now believe she's a great jungler, hahah


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Šuperman

Senior Member

05-10-2012

I think Kayle's Q is one of the best slows in the game, 4 seconds at level 1, that's just so much for early game.


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Yourinnate

Senior Member

05-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by catmasher View Post
Kayle's only problem is killing tanks late game

which is pretty funny considering her passive is supposed to help her shred
To answer you directly... Kayle destroys tanks... Have you played her?


To answer everyone else, who basically reiterate Stonewalls base argument of how "expensive" she is, I present Case 1:

Udyr
Defined by stonewall as a cheap jungler.
Core really only consists Merc Treads and Wit's End, but by the end of the game you will most certainly see either a Randuin's or Frozen heart on him. For arguments sake, we'll say his build at X interval in the game is
Merc Treads/Wit's End/Heart of Gold/Frozen Heart
Cost: 7.250
For a little over 7k you are a straight baller. You are dishing out the pain, and nobody is taking you down.

Kayle
Defined by stonewall as an expensive as hell jungler.
Core is completely malleable depending on your team, so let's assume you have a Graves or some other incredibly strong late game AD carry (point being you aren't THE ad carry, you are a supplement ad carry).
Item's you will buy basically every game:
Berzerker's Greaves/Double Doran's Blades/Vamp Scepter/Brutalizer/Black Cleaver
Cost: 6,522
For under 7k, you are dealing baller damage, from range, and while you sacrifice sustained tankiness, you can turn you or one of your teammates into tryndamere for 3 seconds.



Case 2:
Mundo
Stonewall's Epitome of cheap junglers.
Arguably the most malleable build choice of any jungler (will never argue that).
Using lolpro.com's guide
Merc Treads/Warmog's/Aegis/Spirit Visage/Heart of Gold
Cost:8,500
Using Rincent's Guide on Solomid.net
Merc Treads/Doran's Shield/Wit's End/Frozen Mallet/Spirit Visage
Cost:8,625
Now admittedly, I'm using more items for this build than I did for Udyr's, but part of that is the concession that I made earlier that Mundo is so flexible in his builds. This is clearly late-ish game Mundo.

Kayle
Zerker Greaves/Double Doran's/Bloodthirster/Phantom Dancer
Cost: 7,715
Zerk Greaves/Wriggle's Lantern/Black Cleaver/Phantom Dancer
Cost:8,230
Zerk Greaves/Double Doran's/Infinity Edge/Phantom Dancer
Cost:8,545

For that last particular build, which yields the most damage if you are attacking something by yourself, you build a zeal after the BF sword, then finish the infinity edge and have great damage all the way through. It is an incredibly smooth transition. Maxing E first doesn't give you AD, but it sure does add damage to each auto attack if you get what I'm saying.




Kayle's end game build is expensive, yes. But so are the inexpensive junglers' builds. If for some reason that mundo falls way behind, and he shows up to a team fight with just Merc Treads and a Warmog's and the enemy AD carry has 200-250 cs with even just 1 or 2 kills, you better believe that Mundo isn't sticking around for long.

Similarly, in the same exact situation, if Kayle falls behind and the enemy top laner has 200-250 cs and a kill or two, and Kayle just has a Bloodthirster and Zerker Greaves, she at least can ult a teammate and eventually do damage to in-range squishies.


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Ekanselttar

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Senior Member

05-10-2012

Something worth mentioning is that even though she needs a lot of kills to function like a second AD carry, Kayle split-pushes like an absolute beast. She has great macro mobility (moving between lanes), so she can pop up anywhere, any time. She AoEs creep waves down in no time, and something like Wriggle's/Cleaver/PD means she takes down towers extremely fast. And to top it all off, she's one of the best duelists in the game even when she's not fed (which is when you're gonna be BDing). I had a game where I was 2/11 with her, and just decided to go suicide splitpush. The enemy foolishly send their 6-item Graves to stop me, so I popped my ult, killed him under turret, and finished off their base while both teams came barreling up midlane.


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Yourinnate

Senior Member

05-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotRepertoir View Post
If you're just looking for a jungler that can help you get a higher Elo, Kayle is one of the many that can do it. You're correct in that she does have decent ganks, great tower-diving, and a fantastic clear speed. Unfortunately (and though it hurts me a little to suggest she isn't perfect), she lacks some of the most highly valued qualities seen in junglers currently considered to be the strongest of picks.

For the purposes of solo queue, however, she is definitely a good choice because she can be picked early without the enemy team knowing where you will send her.
A red on my first page! SWEET!!!!!

Btw, I started playing around the Grave's patch. I know the skin that's in your Avatar was a reward for season 1 players... But is there like... ANYTHING I can do to get my hands on it? It is by and large the best Kayle skin out there.

I cook really well. Like really really well.
I have plans to open a restaurant called the Hollandaise Inn one day. Everything on the menu can come with hollandaise sauce. We will have many varieties of said sauce too.

I'm also willing to perform mild sexual favors. And if you don't swing that way, I may be able to convince my wife to do something for you, for the Kayle skin...

But yeah, I'm a great cook.


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SuperCostaBro

Senior Member

05-10-2012

There really isn't any jungler (or champion for that matter) that can easily replace Kayle imo. It really comes down to her absurd amount of built in utility that allows her to build many different ways and fill quite a few roles on a team.

I feel like kayle is unappreciated because she doesn't fit a pre-determined mold like other characters (which I find to be a strength). She can take advantage of hybrid items (rageblade, nashor, etc) so her itemization can be very cheap. If she is fed, she can build ad and aoe teams down, all the while having her amazing ult. WHAT IS BAD ABOUT THIS?!?!?!?!

Also, I don't get why people say her ganks are bad. She contributes good damage, her Q only needs one point to be effective, she has a heal/haste for chasing, and she is ranged. Oh yeah, and when she is lvl 6 she tower dives like a boss. If your lane-mates have the mental capacity to understand what a gank is, they become quite powerful.


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GaryHo123

Senior Member

05-10-2012

I don't know if you know this or not, but Kayle's initial clear is not just average, she's one of the fastest junglers in the game. She's capable of clearing jungle in 3:20


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AFOM

Senior Member

05-10-2012

If you want to show people the power of jungle Kayle, start red. Open boots + 3 pots. Take E first, obviously, and then Q, and gank top. Slow + slow + ranged attack + any CC from your top-laner = easy first blood, because no one sees a level 2 Kayle gank coming.

When talking about build costs as a comparison between jungler "efficiencies," you have to be very careful. It's not just about that total amount--it's about how long it takes your items to become useful. Mundo, for instance, gets vastyle stronger just by having a Heart of Gold. Wriggle's on Shyvana turns her into a jungling machine. Due to Kayle's reliance on her autos to deal her damage, and lack of a true gap closer, she's going to need more gold to really make her presence felt in a fight, aside from her ult.

So Kayle has her strengths, and if she has a very strong start, she can hurt a lot. But I'd say she's best as a mid-game champ: weakish early (without an extraordinarily strong start), strong mid-game before everyone tanks up, and falls off later because it's hard to build as a carry from the jungle and because she's reliant on autos and two of her abilities are support.

I don't think there's any other jungler who is a really good analog. Just the ranged aspect makes her nearly unique among junglers.


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